I think many players from Pre BC and BC will agree with me

[Deleted]

you do remember the giant pain in the arse that was trying to move from 10 man raids to 25 man during TBC?

oh, i get it. you dont.

Because skill was higher rated than gear in that time yes you could do with some effort switch from 10 to 25. Even the best player in the world now will not be able to beat a bad player if he skipped playing for few months. I remember well downing black temple bosses in TBC wearing loot from all raids going from Kara up to TK because stats was more than just equipping epix every raid that was released.

I must say Blizz did a good job trying to go back to the old raiding style, but the game has evolved to much by now and it's impossible to get the old style back. Still cuddos to Blizz for repairing alot of dmg Wotlk brought, still a long way to go though.

[Deerhaven]

hated it.

The tiered raiding meant it was a bitch to recruit and gear people, the shear time investement involved in raiding was stupid and so only no lifers got to raid.

You can look back with rose tinted goggles, but all I remember is stupid long grinds, frustration and a vast majority of the population not getting to see most of the game they pay to play.


Nope, don't miss attunements and tier by teir gearing, it was total BS.

This mentality ruined the game. People cried that they were paying for something and not getting to do everything because they were bad/didnt have time. Now the game caters to the bads and casuals leaving those who actually care and actually pay attention to lore or trying to become better unlike 90% of those that play now. But its been said once its been said a thousand times if 90% are casuals then blizz gets 90% of their money from people that cry about anything that takes effort so they change it. YAY BLIZZARD STORE!!!!

[doot]

@Deerhaven I just thought you should know that taking forever =/= challenging. Had all the attunements been about killing the last boss of X heroic that you would have been killing to gear up anyway it would have been fine.. (of course back in BC most Heroic drops weren't that useful.)

[whetherman]

PEOPLE PLEASE END THESE CONVERSATIONS. Yes, we all pine for the "Good ol' days". I still miss BC and wrath sometimes, but remember, it's old content, and the game is Progressing.

Nostalgia has a funny habit of ignoring everything that was WRONG with the "Good ol' days".

[iidesu]

agreed................

[errosync]

It wasn't a pain, you just had to recruit and actually invest in members instead of requiring raid experience, top gear, and knowledge of all the boss fights. Now it is just about recruiting whoever will benefit the group right now which is a shame.

I know. I mean, all the top guilds totally spoon feed their new recruits the info they need, right? It's not like they require their recruits to not be completely green to the game or proactive at all, right? When I was the designated recruiter for my guild in BC, I got tons of apps from the kind of player you're mentioning. Guess what I did? Denied their asses instantly, because I'm not going to invest my time or my guild's time into someone who can't be proactive outside the game or take the time to set up their character to the best possible condition it can be in for the content they're doing at that present moment.

This mentality ruined the game

No, your mentality ruined the game. The game wasn't fun when warriors couldn't tank certain instances because their AoE was so awful, when rep was horribly low that getting exalted with any faction was legitimately awe-dropping, where attunements were fifteen-chain long quests that forced you to pass through old raids because the new guy you recruited didn't do that before he joined, when only a handful of classes were PvP legitimate and certain specs were past borderline overpowered.

Now don't get me wrong, I loved BC. It came with some of the most creative content, great dungeons and fantastic lore, but acting like it wasn't still a giant, glorified sandbox, especially when you compare BC's release to Cataclysm's release, is ridiculous. Cataclysm has its faults, no denying that, but it is a far more polished product than BC ever was.

[Geckomayhem]

I think I've located his problem:
"I absolutely hate that blizzard has the same raids for 10 and 25 man, I'm getting tired of seeing the same bosses over and over again."

He's sick of the game because raiding is a drag. Well, everyone is different, and gets enjoyment from different things in the game. I haven't raided since the start of Wrath, and even then it was limited. The game has only moved forward and improved, regardless of the "state of raiding".

[Vook]

Whereas I think all the bads that couldnt progress simply just go straight to the "rose-tinted goggled no-lifers" arguement right off the bat. This works both ways, ya know.

Assuming I'm a "bad", are we? Lol.

Never played vanilla or much of any TBC raiding, and looking back at Vanilla, I wouldn't want that at all. Having to grind long dungeon quest chains for minor gear upgrades? Horribly unbalanced classes, specs that are completely unviable for raiding, resist gear mandatory, etc. etc....hell no. I don't like games that require you to grind for hours and hours on end.

I'm willing to bet that 75%+ of the vanilla-worshippers would quit WoW in an instant if it rolled back to vanilla.

In my opinion, only a handful of raiders should experience the latest content, whilst the rest remains in the lower tier raids.

And Blizzard's opinion is the exact opposite. Would you want to design, code etc a raid instance that only a small amount of people are going to see while it's current content? I wouldn't. Blizz doesn't want another naxx40 where only people with absolutely no life get to see it.

[FalinMor]

Now how many of you that played back then wishes that the game was the same as BC? I loved the whole concept of getting attuned for raids and different raids in 10 and 25. Now don't get me wrong, I would love to see some sorta combo happen LIKE getting attuned, going into a different raid every time, and getting hard modes down. I love the whole hard modes concept blizzard added and along with archeology and dungeon finder but I absolutely hate that blizzard has the same raids for 10 and 25 man, i'm getting tired of seeing the same bosses over and over again. I like some of the mechanics some of these bosses have like Nefarian, Sinestra, Atramedes, Twlight council and conclave of wind but alot of bosses in wrath were just the same old mechanics. The only raid I loved in these past 2 years in Ulduar, that was fun, different, and exciting. Now we are repeating the same bosses over and over again, 10 or 25. I would love to have to old game back with some raids being ONLY 10 man and some raids being ONLY 25 man, like kara, ZA, TK, SSC, BT, And ESPECIALLY sunwell, only the best of the best were supposed to complete that with a limited amount of time, always had something to do back then. Now I feel like i'm limited to the same bosses along with archeology, dungeons, and achievements. I think many will agree with me but I may be wrong, this is just my personal opinion.

Hell.
To the no.

Attunements in Vanilla and BC were TERRIBLE, and I'm glad as hell that they saw the light and did away with them.

I'm also glad that they have 10 and 25-man versions of every raid and did away with 40-mans altogether, because some people don't want to herd cats to get a 25-man raid together just to get anything done. Doing that was annoying as hell and added NOTHING to the game. Good riddance.

[aztr0]

I don't wish they go back to answer your question.

[Baker St Irregulars]

@Deerhaven I just thought you should know that taking forever =/= challenging. Had all the attunements been about killing the last boss of X heroic that you would have been killing to gear up anyway it would have been fine.. (of course back in BC most Heroic drops weren't that useful.)

/signed

I do want to say, however, I do enjoy SOME key quests (such as scholo), but only for ONE character. Doing key quests for every character got old real fast, and wound up pissing me off, and I couldn't even attempt Kara key attunement until I was level 80 due to raid requirements.

[Alvito]

While the jump right into the newest raid mentality that Wrath created sucks, so did attuning multiple toons on your account or new mbrs to the raid. You couldn't have done much end game raiding or had anything to do with leading raids if you think that was a great system.

Something small like making ppl key for the next raid that didnt involve a dozen quests in out dated content would be nice though.

[General Vezax]

Remember when, during TBC, people screamed that it was the worst thing ever?

Yeah.

[Attie]

While I feel that attunements are good from a lore perspective, they can quickly become a chore. This is especially true with alts and/or having to attune for multiple instances. Perhaps this is a lazy answer but I'd be ok with account-wide attunement.

[Synnie]

Trying to get into raiding mid TBC was a pain...You had to go through the entire raiding cycle just to catch up with the current content. If you had friends already doing Black Temple it was virtually impossible to raid with them.

[Ferg]

This game has improved so much since BC that anyone who truly wants it back either 1. Didn't play back then or 2. has no intelligence.

[deepfire]

This game has improved so much since BC that anyone who truly wants it back either 1. Didn't play back then or 2. has no intelligence.

or 3. was able to eventually progress though much of the content, without having to do it on "normal mode," feeling a solid sense of appropriate accomplishment, and thoroughly enjoyed the challenging content

[SuperomegaOP]

hell even put some wrath players in their... i started in wrath and cata isnt as good imo.... atleast i could do raids on my paladin as something on side while i was dedicated to getting my relentless glad and mount....(too bad i didnt get the furious it was so much better!!!!!!!!!!)

the fights werent as long as cata but they werent that short... pvp or atleast duels were harder as if u stoped for more than 2-3 seconds it meant a lot...

even though ret was OP against melee we did have trouble vs equally skilled range(even the very good hunters)

but W/E

the paladin rotation was so good... it really fit well with the wrath combat....

but ill just settle with my rusty old paladin in orgrimmar.... LET ME ROGUE BE KING NOW BABY...

got a bit off-topic but idc lol

[Plutarch78]

And because of that very same mentality, a lot of players missed one of the greatest raid instances to date. I mean, why do Ulduar when ToC was easier and provided better gear? In my opinion, only a handful of raiders should experience the latest content, whilst the rest remains in the lower tier raids. We had ICC for a YEAR, i'm sure people would have managed to catch up even if they started when the instance came out and if attunements were in place.

But in order to do this, we NEED to have multiple raid instances on release (like in BC), which is why it kind of worked back then. They promised us Firelands on release alongside BWD, BoT and Throne, yet they failed to do so.

I'm so glad people with your attitude are quitting in droves. End game raiding shouldn't be a old-school golfing country club.

---------- Post added 2011-04-26 at 12:00 AM ----------

This mentality ruined the game. People cried that they were paying for something and not getting to do everything because they were bad/didnt have time. Now the game caters to the bads and casuals leaving those who actually care and actually pay attention to lore or trying to become better unlike 90% of those that play now. But its been said once its been said a thousand times if 90% are casuals then blizz gets 90% of their money from people that cry about anything that takes effort so they change it. YAY BLIZZARD STORE!!!!

Bad DOES NOT equal casual. Not everyone has oddles amount of time in the day to grind their way to get resist gear for months on end just so they can get to the 1st tier of a raid that's already outdated.