combustion

[Proskill]

dont you think it should have a shorter cooldown such as 1 min? compared to other talent cooldown this one is pretty poor imo. just look at arcane power, 20% more dmg for 15sec even with the increased mana cost.

[Spleen]

The way that a good combustion rolls over adds - they'd have to nerf our AoE elsewhere if they dropped the CD.

anytime you can pull 100-500K DPS, you shouldn't expect to see that every minute (until, say, level 95) :P

[Proskill]

The way that a good combustion rolls over adds - they'd have to nerf our AoE elsewhere if they dropped the CD.

anytime you can pull 100-500K DPS, you shouldn't expect to see that every minute (until, say, level 95) :P

but srsly who cares about aoe? i think only single target counts. u dont have many fights with such aoe.

[Zues]

Uh, Maloriak, Halfus, Magmaw......

[Spleen]

I was even using "AoE" sloppily.

More than one target. That's all it takes to make combustion more ridiculous and there are MANY fights this tier with more than one up.

Whether or not YOU care about AoE, other classes do and I'd rather not see our RNG abilities nerfed against our best-case performances...

[Rinkz]

AOE as fire = 10% haste aswel so i care about aoe

[Sangheiili]

but srsly who cares about aoe? i think only single target counts. u dont have many fights with such aoe.

Halfus.
Maloriak.
Cho'gall.
Magmaw depending on your strat.
ODS.

That's just raid content, there's some in heroics.

Point is, SHHHHHHHH.

[Spleen]

Don't forget V&T, and council (at times) and Omnotron, and...

[Sangheiili]

Dotting 2 targets and AoE aren't really the same. We're discussing full blown AoE, IE combustion spreading. Not even really discussing, more just unanimously telling the OP he's wrong.

[anjou]

Don't forget V&T, and council (at times) and Omnotron, and...

I've never managed to spread any dot on V&T, do you guys tank it in a specific way? I've heard having one tanked beneath the other works, looking for confirmation.

[Swizzle]

I've never managed to spread any dot on V&T, do you guys tank it in a specific way? I've heard having one tanked beneath the other works, looking for confirmation.

Impact as they're flying over one another. Or just go to the twilight realm and spam DoTs on everything.

[Darsey]

Buff Flamestrike, and Blastwave damage, remove the dot spread from impact all together and remove the cap from living bomb.

Then put combustion on 45 sec CD.

AoE as fire is not fun, and too random and so much not on demand, and it is impossible to balance with the current impact mechanic.

[Swizzle]

Buff Flamestrike, and Blastwave damage, remove the dot spread from impact all together and remove the cap from living bomb.

Then put combustion on 45 sec CD.

AoE as fire is not fun, and too random and so much not on demand, and it is impossible to balance with the current impact mechanic.

No thanks, I'd rather my AoE avoid the damage cap altogether instead of adhering to it.

[eskimoman]

AoE as fire is not fun, and too random and so much not on demand, and it is impossible to balance with the current impact mechanic.

I don't know about you but I'd rather have my AOE be engaging and not repeatedly channeling one spell..but I guess thats just me. But anyways, combustion on a 1 min CD would be borderline op, it is already an incredibly strong CD and as stated with 2+ targets combustion does a ridiculously good amount of damage anyways

[Deleted]

Sure, combustion buff sounds nice, where would you like a nerf? Less fireball damage? Require 3 crits in a row for Hot streak? What?
Our DPS is very equal to, if not better than, other classes. If you buff 1 thing at this point, it only means a nerf to something else. So.. Comb buff? Sure. What would you nerf OP?

Well.. ?

[Darsey]

No thanks, I'd rather my AoE avoid the damage cap altogether instead of adhering to it.

AoE cap is there for a reason, it is impossible to balance fire mage aoe without the aoe cap in mind, and it is impossible to balance the single target/aoe dps values nor the value of mastery with that mechanics in game.
For being OP once every 2 min if you are lucky with procs is not worth all the balancing issues it brings.

I don't know about you but I'd rather have my AOE be engaging and not repeatedly channeling one spell..but I guess thats just me. But anyways, combustion on a 1 min CD would be borderline op, it is already an incredibly strong CD and as stated with 2+ targets combustion does a ridiculously good amount of damage anyways

Your AoE dps is so random with combustion as it is, the different between an ideal combustion to a none ideal one is massive, can very up to 300% difference, yea you can make faces melt when it goes out perfectly, but are also easily fucked. It adds up to the major fire issue of being to random and not steady.

Keeping flamestrike up, and keeping as much LBs up is not as static as you make it sound. could also change imp flamestrike a bit so instead of procing a flame strike, blast wave would make every living bombed target to proc and explode(with or without consuming the dot). Monitoring DoTs on a single target , praying for my pyro to crit, and impact to proc at the right time it not fun. Feeling like I lost tons of dps because my pyroblast ticked once or twice before I had my impact ready, or because my pyro didn't crit or anything is not fun either.

[Swizzle]

AoE cap is there for a reason, it is impossible to balance fire mage aoe without the aoe cap in mind, and it is impossible to balance the single target/aoe dps values nor the value of mastery with that mechanics in game.
For being OP once every 2 min if you are lucky with procs is not worth all the balancing issues it brings.

What does the AoE cap have to do with single target DPS? AoE mechanics and single target are balanced separately. They don't intend Priests spamming Mind Sear on single target fights, so your point is self-defeating. Then again, I think everyone needs to relax and wait for the Patch 4.2 notes and encounters to be unveiled before complaining about okay mechanics.

[Darsey]

What does the AoE cap have to do with single target DPS? AoE mechanics and single target are balanced separately. They don't intend Priests spamming Mind Sear on single target fights, so your point is self-defeating. Then again, I think everyone needs to relax and wait for the Patch 4.2 notes and encounters to be unveiled before complaining about okay mechanics.

It does. When you can use your strongest nuke and make it hit every target around for the same amount of damage it would hit the main target, it is connected. When you have stats like mastery effecting only your dots, and then making your dots able to hit everything in impact range, it makes it impossible to balance mastery to be a good state for single target without making it stupidly OP for AoE. When you make that Mastery good for AoE, then it is impossible to make it good for single target.

Do you remember the old unholy DK mastery? Increasing disease damage. If it was any good on a single target, it would have been so OP on aoe fights , and if it was only good on multi target areas, it was awful on a single target fight.

The current impact effects the class in the same manner. They can't make mastery good on single target without breaking it on aoe fights. They can not make combustion more friendly or on shorter CD as long as impact makes it so strong. Fire mages are the only class that has 2 min CD on a nuke. It is also the only class that can't use its strongest nuke on CD but need to wait for sweet lady luck to smile on them in order to make it hit hard, and in constant debate with them self for how long can they wait for that perfect combustion. changing the CD to 1min or even 45 sec would make it more forgiving if you didn't had the luck with a perfect combustion or not, because the long CD is not there anymore.

Sure, combustion buff sounds nice, where would you like a nerf? Less fireball damage? Require 3 crits in a row for Hot streak? What?
Our DPS is very equal to, if not better than, other classes. If you buff 1 thing at this point, it only means a nerf to something else. So.. Comb buff? Sure. What would you nerf OP?

Thing with sites like state of dps wowscorebord etc, is that they show the top logs, and top logs by nature are logs where people had good RNG at. The different between a shadow priest with good RNG, to a fire mage with good RNG is massive, but sadly on reality you don't always have those amazing RNG on your side that top loggers have. Honestly, I am surprised that on those log sites fire mages are not topping the meters by a lot on every single fight, because that how it would have been if there average dps was fine. You can consider it as a person who rolls 100-1 and a person who roll 31-70, both should have the same average roll, however if both will roll 1000000 times and you will take the top 100 rolls, the guy that rolls 1-100 would picture as superman roller. The current state is more like Fire mages rolling 1-80 while other classes roll 45-79, and that is not fine.

[eskimoman]

Your AoE dps is so random with combustion as it is, the different between an ideal combustion to a none ideal one is massive, can very up to 300% difference, yea you can make faces melt when it goes out perfectly, but are also easily fucked. It adds up to the major fire issue of being to random and not steady.

You have to realize though that even with a crappy combustion in an aoe situation if you pre-force an impact proc and spread the combustion immediately it is still incredibly powerful and will put you at the top (not necessarily 1st) of the meters

[Darsey]

You have to realize though that even with a crappy combustion in an aoe situation if you pre-force an impact proc and spread the combustion immediately it is still incredibly powerful and will put you at the top (not necessarily 1st) of the meters

200%-300% different is still no fun, nor reliable, it also cause balancing issues for farther content. At some point they would make a fight with adds that need to be bursted down as a cutting edge fight, and then fire mage shooting a good combustion could trivial that if they don't consider it as a norm, it will trivial it, if they do, then you will have to have a fire mage(s) in your raid to shoot that combustion.

When classes has abilities that strong and that unique they make encounters harder to balance,if it stays like that, there will be fights where mage will either trivial the aoe part, or that a mage will be a must in order to get past that part, either is not a good option.Add to that the mastery fire mages has interact with such an ability so well, it make it also impossible to balance.

If dots are about 30% of your damage before mastery, they would have to make mastery about 3% per point in order to keep it in line with crit/hit or haste, however if your multi target is based on about 75% dots, now mastery is all of a sudden insane, if they want to keep mastery in line at AoE cases then they have to gimp it badly for single target issues- remember the old UH mastery? think the same direction but a bit less blunt.