If Frost Mages are Overpowered....

[Zendik]

Frost Mages aren't OP. If you tried using the search function, you actually get a decent response every so often.

The reason they are considered OP is because they are balanced around high end players(or rather 'a dispeller'). Against dispellers Frost Mages are pretty crap and can be trained, thus the only damage they can do is on the move; Ice Lance.

At low end, where they don't have people dispelling all their roots/stuns/etc. they can do a lot of damage very easily, and that makes it look very OP.

Simply put: 1v1 isn't balanced, and Frost Mages are balanced around a dispeller.

agreed. specially BGs. throw a frost mage in the middle of a party, and it creates a massive disadvantage to whoever has less frost mages. frost nova / cone of cold / pet nova / shatter / deep freeze / ring of frost / ice lance spam + kiting slowed or frozen targets, etc. it's horrible to go on world pvp or bgs and get frost mages that knows enough to make a pain to the adversary.

this is a consequence of priorities. like blizzard keeps stating regarding lower levels, they are not interested in balancing at lower levels. same for bgs and all that, all that REALLY matters is top pvping. for bgs? both factions will have the chance to take mages, so no need to balance there. only for arenas, where dispel is used cleverly.

[Deleted]

I agree that frost mages don't hit hard, but the number of cc they have is a nightmare when you are playing as a melee.

[Deleted]

I like the amount of people defending their op class

Wotlk - Beast Cleave beated RMP on tournament > 2 weeks later Beast Cleave nerfed

Cata beta - RMP team gets huge buffs

Cata - Kung Fu Cleave beats RMP > Kung Fu Cleave gets nerfed in 4.0.6 while RMP buffed

And seriously who believes the crap statement said by devs that mages suck at high end pvp but "seem" OP vs noobs ...

People living in denial >.>

Destruction Warlock op? I think not...

[Pantelija]

Yes, yes you are. Beast Cleave didn't get nerfed because it beat RMP, it got nerfed because it was the most brainless comp to ever see the light of day and beat EVERYONE. CC Immunity? Check. Bloodlust? Check. No CC? Check. Mash buttons until something dies with a red pet and lusted wolves? Check.

TSG isnt braindead buttonmashing comp ?
Please dont make me laugh and you trying to point that i am living in denial by thinking Frost isnt OP is just stupid .

Its like homeless guy trying to convince Bill Gates that cave people had advanced technology than we have ...

And tbh no point arguing with u on this subject more , u have proven to be ignorant and show trollish behavior in the past .

[zorkuus]

Play a mage, that is being spam dispelled, with 2 melee/physical dps training on you in a 3's game. Come back and tell me how much control, dmg and survivability you have then matey

So you're saying, mages are fine because they can't deal with 1vs3? What is the rest of your team doing? Mages would only be OP if they could deal with 1vs3?

[Garuk]

Everyone keeps forgetting that this game is balanced around TEAM play. Very few MMO developers (if any) have ever balanced their game around solo play. The whole idea of an online game is that you're ALWAYS playing and interacting with other people, and Blizzard doesn't intend to change that core idea.

With that in mind, consider that frost mages are balanced when you've got a group of players. A fairly simple counter to a powerful solo class is present in just about every party scenario. If its not, then its not! You can't always have the tools necessary to finish the job...sometimes you'll need to adapt and improvise. That's just the way the world works!

[cooespooh]

Mages are easily shut down in two cases.

One; someone is spamming dispel on either the mage or the mage's target. All mage debuffs are magic effects. All mage buffs and procs are magic effects (excluding armor). If a mage is stripped of either, they are essentially powerless. The only time this is not the case is if it's an arcane mage, as they have only one debuff and their stacking Arcane Blast effect is considered a debuff on themselves.

Two; silence and interrupt spam. Need I say more?

Mages NEED their buffs and debuffs to be effective. A frost mage that can only spam Frostbolt without being able to hit a frozen target will hit like a wet noodle. A fire mage that is spamming Scorch as their main nuke and can't keep Living Bomb on the target because it's being dispelled or (god forbid) someone dispels their Hot Streak proc might as well be wanding. Or, worse yet, someone dispels Combustion from their target. That's just cruel!

[Swizzle]

Oh come on Swizzle, wakey wakey. Only one of the changes goes anywhere near fixing the problem that gives mages their see-saw balancing issues. I don't give a crap about frost's misaimed nerfs...they need what's broken them to be fixed.

What needs to happen is giving all caster classes 30% passive dispel protection, that's about it. Or give us some trash debuffs/buffs back, but the changes this patch are steps in the right direction, they're not just aimless buffs to make us gods of everything and its mother.

---------- Post added 2011-04-26 at 04:30 PM ----------

TSG isnt braindead buttonmashing comp ?
Please dont make me laugh and you trying to point that i am living in denial by thinking Frost isnt OP is just stupid .

Its like homeless guy trying to convince Bill Gates that cave people had advanced technology than we have ...

And tbh no point arguing with u on this subject more , u have proven to be ignorant and show trollish behavior in the past .

Umm, what part of my post had anything to do with TSG?

Alright fine, I cave, Frost Mages are OP. You caught us. We've been playing this game so well now that only the most astute players were able to catch on to the fact that we are all sitting on our R1 S9 titles already. I congratulate you on your accomplishment sir, you have unraveled a mystery so epic, that it is only rivaled by the riveting Da Vinci Code, in both scale and actual historical and realistic accuracy.

[Sour Skittles]

A mage is squishy as hell, if he couldn't control people he would just die. Look at Arcane mages, way more damage, less forms of control, not favored in PVP because they just die. Mages need all the control they can get just to be able to play.

[Against the Modern World]

With that in mind, consider that frost mages are balanced when you've got a group of players.

By balanced around groups of players, did you mean freezing half of BG team with one spell like Ring of Frost?

[Deleted]

1. Get a dispeller
2. Dispell

[TaurenNinja]

1. Frost mages aren't so great with a dispeller (which is standard in 3v3 arena, as each healer can dispel magic)
2. Frost mages seem overpowered in low-skill environment. I have a badly geared frost mage twink, and just yesterday I created a new 2v2 team with a rogue. He missed the invite and so I was alone. I won 1v2 vs Warrior/Rogue. These two just sucked ass, because I'm not even good at mage. And these two are probably the type of person who whine in forums about frost mages.
3. Frost mages are actually slightly UNDERpowered in high-level PvP. With a dispeller on the enemy team and 2 DDs training them all day long, they will go down very fast if they don't get help from their mates. And EVERY team trains mages in an arena. To give them a bit more breathing room, their defense got buffed a bit in the next patch (better Frost Armor and Ice Barrier)

This is the hard truth.

[cooespooh]

By balanced around groups of players, did you mean freezing half of BG team with one spell like Ring of Frost?

Which is totally different than instantly freezing everyone nearby with Hungering Cold without warning or the avoidable graphic, right?

[asb]

What is all this crap coming from mages? Well, if we have two melee getting spam dispelled and training us, we can't really do any damage. First, how does that mean anything? That's just a given. Any class while trained is supposed to worry about survival, and is put in a difficult situation. Despite being "useless" while focused, you are actually a very difficult class to kill, and regardless of your damage output are useful in competitive PvP.

Secondly, what exactly is the rest of your team doing during this time? Are you all playing a 1v3 arena bracket, or are they all as useless and broken PvP classes as you poor frost mages? Assuming an RMP comp, why doesn't your rogue peel with crippling? I guess every team has a druid/paladin to spam dispel that, just like they have a priest to dispel both your ice blocks.

[Theoron]

I'm actually surprised to see any defense for mages these days. Most people just hop on the "They're OP" wagon simply because others are on it.

Every class is "OP" in it's own way. It's rock, paper, scissors gameplay that helps balance classes. You aren't meant to be a single powerful entity, but instead a team player who helps and receives help from the team. They have tweaked classes a bit over the years to where the line that separates a rock from paper is much more thin, but it's still there, and some people need to realize that.

[Sour Skittles]

I really wish people could just get on a 85 mage and see how hard and fast we're destroyed if we don't pop all of our defensive cooldowns and tools at the right time in the right order in a fight and even then.. it's so easy to just get overwhelmed. If it looks easy just think about how many times that mage ate it to develop those reflexes. We can't just charge in to a group and yell at the healer like a warrior.

[LashtonBryth]

Frost mages are overpowered against teams without dispellers. Frost mages are gimped against teams with a dispeller. The class design is just poor.

[Against the Modern World]

Which is totally different than instantly freezing everyone nearby with Hungering Cold without warning or the avoidable graphic, right?

Mages, other rdd and healers can sit in the Ring of Frost and be safe from melee classes (except Death Grip).

[chrisorie4]

I'm one of the sad people who laughs when seeing some PTR notes from time to time. The frost mage buffs actually made me laugh so hard that i cried. Honestly, i'm going to laugh even more when FM's get nerfed xD. Everytime i see a frost mage come at me i prepare for the 15 seconds of root and 666 seconds of CC. Trinket ftw LOL

[Garuk]

Mages, other rdd and healers can sit in the Ring of Frost and be safe from melee classes (except Death Grip).

Why do you insist on finding a situation where a spell is POWERFUL and making it seem like the end of the world? Can mages not have a neat tool to use to benefit their team?

Counters to this:
Death Grip, as you mentioned
Dispels
Your own team's RDD
CC
Stand away for 12 seconds