Who's pissed about these HM nerfs?

[vizzle]

Being in a guild that is quickly progressing through the 10 man hard modes, I really can't figure out blizzard's rationale behind nerfing 10 man heroic fights. I understand them nerfing the regular modes to make them more accessible since firelands is on the horizon, but why the hell did they have to nerf heroic mode too? Now, every time we beat a boss post patch were all going to be silently thinking to ourselves "these aren't the same encounters as a week ago." Did people really think these fights were too hard? We haven't taken a shot at nef or chogall in hard mode but from the nerfs I see going out to the fights we have already done (which IMO were still too easy for a hard mode) which were completely unnecessary, I doubt the ones in fights we haven't seen were necessary either.

Do you people think these nerfs were needed? Or is it just blizzard flip flopping again on their ideology of hard modes

This is how it works.

Good players are already progressed, Blizzard leaves encounters hard for these people.

When the good players are done progressing, Blizzard starts nerfing the encounters for the lesser players, just so that they'll have a chance.

You are obviously not part of the good players, if you are upset about this.

[manniefaces]

You had a chance to beat the hardest content when it was most relevant. How do nerfs now matter? You had you chance to be first to the party. While others arrive late you should have moved on. It's a game remember that.

[vizzle]

its nice to see a change for the ppl that don't want to raid 3-7 nights a week 3-4 hrs a night

Big difference between the two extremes there, way too big. 9 hours (3x3) vs. 28 hours (7x4). You cannot seriously try to generalize 9 hour raiders with 28 hour raiders. And if you can't play 9 hours a week, because you're too busy/you don't want to, should you even care about raiding?

[starrynights]

Their ideology is hard at the start, then gradually nerf content to make it more accessible. So they are not flopping. There is a blue post or a blog entry on this somewhere.

[Nexdominus]

Being in a guild that is quickly progressing through the 10 man hard modes, I really can't figure out blizzard's rationale behind nerfing 10 man heroic fights. I understand them nerfing the regular modes to make them more accessible since firelands is on the horizon, but why the hell did they have to nerf heroic mode too? Now, every time we beat a boss post patch were all going to be silently thinking to ourselves "these aren't the same encounters as a week ago." Did people really think these fights were too hard? We haven't taken a shot at nef or chogall in hard mode but from the nerfs I see going out to the fights we have already done (which IMO were still too easy for a hard mode) which were completely unnecessary, I doubt the ones in fights we haven't seen were necessary either.

Do you people think these nerfs were needed? Or is it just blizzard flip flopping again on their ideology of hard modes

Nerfs were not needed. To answer your opening question I'm not pissed about them.

[FireBorne]

I never understood why people care if encounters get nerfed. Could it be because more people will be able to clear the content and catch up or possibly surpass them in "progress" making them realize they are just trash players by their own standards?

[vizzle]

IO never understood why people care if encounters get nerfed. Could it be because more people will be able to clear the content and catch up or possibly surpass them in "progress" making them realize they are just trash players by their own standards?

It's the same people who said "WHY AREN'T THEY REMOVING IRONBOUND DRAKES!?" when they got theirs in ICC.

[Rukentuts]

A lot of 10m encounters were way harder than their 25m hard mode counterparts.

It's the same people who said "WHY AREN'T THEY REMOVING IRONBOUND DRAKES!?" when they got theirs in ICC.

The logic is this: I solve a harder "puzzle" than you but we both get the same reward.

[Herecius]

A friendly neighborhood reminder to not turn this into 10man vs. 25man.

[Harsesis]

Being in a ten man guild these nerfs are welcome. Nef and Cho'gall were way overtuned pre 4.1 and these nerfs help.

[Laikaa]

Being in a guild that is quickly progressing through the 10 man hard modes, I really can't figure out blizzard's rationale behind nerfing 10 man heroic fights. I understand them nerfing the regular modes to make them more accessible since firelands is on the horizon, but why the hell did they have to nerf heroic mode too? Now, every time we beat a boss post patch were all going to be silently thinking to ourselves "these aren't the same encounters as a week ago." Did people really think these fights were too hard? We haven't taken a shot at nef or chogall in hard mode but from the nerfs I see going out to the fights we have already done (which IMO were still too easy for a hard mode) which were completely unnecessary, I doubt the ones in fights we haven't seen were necessary either.

Do you people think these nerfs were needed? Or is it just blizzard flip flopping again on their ideology of hard modes

If you had made this post in January there may have been some merit to your argument. As it stands, the content is almost 5 months old and new raids loom on the horizon. I think Blizzard has made it pretty clear that boss enounters will be nerfed, as content becomes outdated, to allow as many people as possbile to experience the raids. Don't feed the troll!

[WingsofLiberty]

tbh i couldn't care less..

[Dubzil]

being in a guild that's got a late start at raiding and we're just now getting to bash our heads against the hard modes, it is kinda sad to see the nerfs, but at the same time I'd rather see the hard modes than have 4.2 come out and completely skip over some due to lack of time.

[r80354]

Being in a guild that is quickly progressing through the 10 man hard modes, I really can't figure out blizzard's rationale behind nerfing 10 man heroic fights. I understand them nerfing the regular modes to make them more accessible since firelands is on the horizon, but why the hell did they have to nerf heroic mode too? Now, every time we beat a boss post patch were all going to be silently thinking to ourselves "these aren't the same encounters as a week ago." Did people really think these fights were too hard? We haven't taken a shot at nef or chogall in hard mode but from the nerfs I see going out to the fights we have already done (which IMO were still too easy for a hard mode) which were completely unnecessary, I doubt the ones in fights we haven't seen were necessary either.

Do you people think these nerfs were needed? Or is it just blizzard flip flopping again on their ideology of hard modes

Its not about weather you are able to defeat the encounter or not, its obviously about making both the 10 and 25 difficulty closer to each other than before. If you dont understand that 25 is much easier than 10, then you wont understand why these nerfs were put in.

Edit:

A friendly neighborhood reminder to not turn this into 10man vs. 25man.

Im not going there to argue, only to state the truth of the situation. If this nerf was as others stated, because content is old, it would have been an across the board nerf instead of the one we are seeing.

[Applenazi]

Obviously you guys needed ALL the nerfs the HM 10's has already had in Feb/Mar.

This. Most of the fights that are being nurfed have already been nurfed once, in most cases MUCH more severely than this.

[Paskgotsheal]

I remember someone posting a comment about HM nerfs which I thought was pretty good. Was something like:

If you could kill them pre-nerf, you would of killed them pre-nerf.

Not true, we've killed 12/13 pre nerf, but we wiped at sinestra at 3, 6 and 8 %

The amount of attempts that it takes to get the one attempt that orbs wouldn't be on both healers or wrack starting out on a tank were ridiculous. Like literally 1 in 25 pulls we'd have a good one

[wiggletard]

It's nerf on 10-mans. And I guess it's because they are a bit overtuned atm..

This, there is a reason they made the changes to 10 man and not 25. Although I fail to see how "balancing" in 10 man is just lowering the damage. Instead of addressing the real issue of the mechanics being wonky between raid sizes.

[vizzle]

This, there is a reason they made the changes to 10 man and not 25. Although I fail to see how "balancing" in 10 man is just lowering the damage. Instead of addressing the real issue of the mechanics being wonky between raid sizes.

They can't change entire fights in hotfixes. What's done has been done, hopefully they've learned their mistakes and will change mechanics next tier, instead of just upping/lowering damage.

[cFortyfive]

Well not pissed or something but I liked the icc buff model a lot more.

[aikanaro]

You are all awesome.. ok fine you can debate that SOME of the nerfs are unwarranted, but look at it like this. 100 guilds in the world 13 of 13 on 25 man, and only 23 on 10 man. I am not implying that 10 man is a lot more difficult, but even blizzard has said that 10 man ballancing is a lot more complex than 25. 10 man's need to be ballanced so for fights like nef and sinestra, they are more of ballances than nerfs.