Ask the Devs #7: Professions

[Breccia]

Here is a list of summarized topics of all "highly rated" posts in the thread where Blizzard wanted our questions about professions, in order by first submission.
-- T12 flasks
-- unobtainable old-world recipes
-- lack of RP in archaeology (you just sell the greys)
-- dailies for other professions
-- new flying carpet
-- BoP crafting recipes dropped in raids
-- crafted wands
-- some kind of error message when you miss a skillup because you forgot to train the next level range
-- fun craftables
-- lower material costs of dreamcloth
**editor's note: the asker pointed out, correctly, that the mats to make dreamcloth cost more than the dreamcloth itself. This is to be expected. Ingredients almost always cost more than the final result, because ingredients have potential to be many things, and the completed item does not.
-- T12 goggles
-- orbs becoming BoE/BoA
-- glyph books in Cata
** This was the number one most posted question, by the way
-- crafted mounts for other professions
-- skinning gives no exp
-- neither does fishing
**editor's note: nor should it. You can sit and chain-fish in a safe zone indefinitely.
-- archaeology is boring
-- so is fishing
-- equal treatment for professions in terms of recipes dropping in T12 content
-- explaination of the Working Overtime bonus
-- the speed of levelling up gathering materials at low levels
-- why do JCs have the most recipes and learn them the slowest
-- removal of slot requirements for enchanting
-- the mats required for 346 weapons
-- the highly limited drop zones of Arthas' Tears, Felcloth and Ghost Mushrooms
-- archaeology puzzle minigame
-- epic recipes for casuals (i.e. BoE drops)
-- epic or orb-using JC BoE's
-- there aren't enough things to do with inscription
-- more archaeology sites per continent at higher skill levels
-- recipes that require more than one profession to complete
-- engineers need more gear to make
-- more Tolvir sites
-- blacksmithing specialization (come back! please!)
-- multi-stage upgradable crafteds like the BC crafted weapons/armor
-- archaeology drops for rogues (other than the axe)
-- Cata-versions of the crazy alchemist or endless mana potions
-- RNG RNG RNG archaeology
-- new tier of materials in 4.2
-- recipes from epic questlines
-- tutoring for first-time players learning professions
-- more archaeology races
-- the names of the tiers of profession skills ("illustrious Grand Master") suck
-- epic gems
-- archaeology in Outlands doesn't have enough rares
-- gathering nodes in phased areas
-- more total glyphs
-- choosing the secondary stats in crafted items
-- some kind of compensation for LFD disenchanters, such as the ability to use and keep the extras from the guild perk, or else an on/off switch
-- transmute cooldowns linked
-- a Cata fishing tournament
**editor's note: that isn't a complete RNG lottery waste of time like the Dalaran one
-- the top hat (and monacle combo)
-- fishing boat mounts
-- first aid is useless at higher levels. it needs more powers (CPR) or items (anti-venoms)
-- scrapping items for crafting materials and greys
-- Cata-level fishing dailies with better prizes
-- hoverboards
-- guild challenges based on professions
**editor's note: most professions are solo work. Guild challenges require group work. These wouldn't be easy to make.
-- there is no use for nexus crystals
-- let us catch critters and tame them as pets
-- revisit the need/greed rolling system on BoE recipes, glyph books, and materials that drop
-- why do engineers have to explode
-- didn't you promise to overhaul fishing in 2009?
-- converting the +1 cooking/+1 fishing from dailies at max skill to gold
-- titles earned by professions
-- better filtering in the crafting menu

Edit: I have highlit in blue the questions that were asked enough times by enough people to warrant an answer, even if the answer is "no".

Breccia

[exquisite]

Some of those I dont see happening:

1. Exp from skinning. Herbs/Ore are spread out enough to where leveling by gathering isnt viable. But think about places like the herds of mammoths and rhinos in Northrend Exp would be insane for someone of that level range. You could be skinning hundreds of mobs like ever 15 mins. Too much exp.

I leveled my tauren druid from 78 to 82 entirely by herbing. Heirlooms affect the xp gained from gathering.

[Quetak]

For me is the worst thing in profesions that everybody can disenchant in dungeons. Enchanters are loosing lot of money by that way, Ah is full of cheap enchanting stuff. I'm enchanter and I have also lot of esences and dusts in my bank with no purpose of use. If we compare price of material needed for enchant with enchant scroll (complete enchant) on AH there is nearly no money benefit for enchanter to do enchants. We can just collect dusts and esences same as everybody else and sell them for same money as others.

Enchanter nowadays = hey man make enchant for me from my mats -> trade -> trade-> bye.

Enchanting has totaly different principe that other profesions...nobody else can prospect/mill/tailor cloths/smelt/.... but disenchant can everybody, it is quite nonsense. You can't realy make money by enchanting if you don't have some realy epic formula which everybody wants (enchant bracers - greater intelect when it was new for ex.). We are just doing black work by enchant scrolls which can be sold on AH with 5 golds earnings against raw material, yeaaa, great I will be a milionare in patch 8.3

When some green item drops, only enchanter should have possibilty to disenchant it for himself not for others, they dont need dusts and essences when they are not enchanters. If they won a green by greed, okay, they can sell it to some enchanter who can make a mats from it. It is why I choosed enchanting that I can disenchant items and I will be needed by others to improve their gear...

[Deleted]

When some green item drops, only enchanter should have possibilty to disenchant it for himself not for others, they dont need dusts and essences when they are not enchanters.

Sorry, I disagree there. I have two patterns (an enchanting bag and a 22 slot general bag) that need Hypnotic dust. The only way I can get this in any decent number is winning DE rolls on greens. (Or since 4.0.6, buying them for 100jp from the vendor). Tailors are the only profession, mind, that need any of the current cata-level enchanting mats outside of enchanting itself. However, I'll agree we have no use for HS and Maelstrom crystals...

[Deleted]

The 'unfairness' of the DE option in instances has irked me since they released it. The whole party freeloads off the enchanting skill of 1 person and gets the benefit from it, as opposed to the enchanter that is DE'ing the mats "for free". Some disenchanting tax might solve that problem? For each 10 dusts produced by that person's enchanting skill he is awarded 1?

In shrill contrast to that are skinners that can also skin mobs in instances and keep all the "profit" to themselves (as well as herbalists and miners in lowlevel instances). Even if you reason that everyone needs enchanting mats and only LWers need leather, it's still unfair as most of the enchanting mats obtained that way will end up on the AH anyway and poison the profit margins for the enchanters.

[Quetak]

But this is something different what you write about hyp.dusts needed for your tailoring Bag. What you said is same like JwC need raw gems and these gems are provided from ores that are needed to be mined. It is dependence of profesions between themselves... Alchemist needs herbs, BS need mining, ect... If you need Hyp.dust you should find some enchanter(give him some boe greens...) or buy them on AH from enchanter not from somebody without enchanting. If you need herbs for potions you also must find some herbalist who give them to you, you are not waiting that they will drop somewhere. This is depreciating enchanting to bottom of profesions(from earnings point of view), despite enchanting is one of most needed profesions for all players, everybody wants to have all enchants on his gear, but enchanters has no benefit from that everybody needs their enchants. Enchanter do enchants mostly from somebody else's material not from his own supplies and it not correct. Only benefit from to be Enchanter is that I don't need to find somebody who enchants my gear.

[stickyjam]

enchanting also annoys me too, i dont see why i should disenchant other peoples greens so they can put the mats i de'd on the AH and drive down the prices so that my profit margins are non existent?

its a very frustrating profession to have especially when u have to pay 5 maelstroms for some of the recipes too, to then get tipped 20-50g for using it...

[Leobald]

So don't sell them your enchants for a 50 gold tip.

[deevicoos]

enchanting also annoys me too, i dont see why i should disenchant other peoples greens so they can put the mats i de'd on the AH and drive down the prices so that my profit margins are non existent?

its a very frustrating profession to have especially when u have to pay 5 maelstroms for some of the recipes too, to then get tipped 20-50g for using it...

Simple explanation for the enchanting conundrum. Well sort of, it's not 100% satisfactory for boss drops, but anyway...

If you get a BoE item and there's no enchanter you can give it to an enchanter and shard it later. If it's BoP, you can vend it. If you have herbs, a node, or a dead mob, it's of no use to anyone without the right professions. Simple.

Now of course shards>vendor value of most boss blues and useless epics. But we could vend it. I'm okay with sharders getting a shard every now and then if everyone else gets gold because we would get gold without it right? Why not? Because it's dumb. As far as enchanters making money goes, try being an inscriptor, you make money hand of over fist unless you don't log in on the right day or get out the right side of bed. Otherwise, blizzard have removed and neutered all our good cash flow items. But at the end of the day it's an MMO and having a guild inscriptor is sort of valuable to a guild. Guild enchanters to take on raids and shard purples, those are priceless. If helping your friends/allies isn't enough you probably won't last very long in WoW anyway.

[Deleted]

Sorry, I disagree there. I have two patterns (an enchanting bag and a 22 slot general bag) that need Hypnotic dust. The only way I can get this in any decent number is winning DE rolls on greens. (Or since 4.0.6, buying them for 100jp from the vendor). Tailors are the only profession, mind, that need any of the current cata-level enchanting mats outside of enchanting itself. However, I'll agree we have no use for HS and Maelstrom crystals...

remember how boots used to need leather?
should you be able to skin to get it?
or get herbs for the volatile life for the hyjal dreamcloth?

I used to have an alchemist, why couldn't I prospect gems for transmuting?

all of the professions have something that requires another profession to make, for tailoring, it's the dusts, for enchanting it's the rods from blacksmiths.

plus, if we think about tailoring from dungeons, tailors get extra cloth that non-tailors are unable to get, enchanters have to give away free mats to non-enchanters, totally fair.

personally, I think that any non enchanter should get half of the mats, and the enchanter gets half

[DrakeWurrum]

My Leatherworking question wasn't highly rated?

Lame. I keep hoping for it to get some love. I miss the old TBC drums and I'd like to see more fun toys like that.

Least I can still use Drums of Speed to stack with ghost wolf...

[Deleted]

remember how boots used to need leather?
should you be able to skin to get it?
or get herbs for the volatile life for the hyjal dreamcloth?

I used to have an alchemist, why couldn't I prospect gems for transmuting?

Yay, strawman arguments. I was rebutting Quetak's point that no one other than enchanters need enchanting mats. It's just not true. Your questions above are not related at all.

plus, if we think about tailoring from dungeons, tailors get extra cloth that non-tailors are unable to get

That was done to combat the poor cloth droprates; prior to that change (which started in wotlk), tailors found it hard to get enough cloth from dungeons.

personally, I think that any non enchanter should get half of the mats, and the enchanter gets half

This I can fully agree on!

[Deleted]

Yay, strawman arguments. I was rebutting Quetak's point that no one other than enchanters need enchanting mats. It's just not true. Your questions above are not related at all.

sorry, I must have misread what you said.
I thought you were talking about how other professions need things from other professions

[zdude]

The only way to fix enchanting is to double or triple the mats enchanters receive and hit the AH. The days of enchanters making any coin are long gone. Some of the most sought after chants were once only obtained from raiding, but Blizz stopped that so that the casual player could obtain the top end chants.

Once it was common practice to tip an enchanter, these days there are so many chanters paying people to skill up, even if you are maxed out, people still ask you how much you will pay them to chant their items. I first thought the dungeon auto DE was a good thing, as it was a pain to hang around deing things at the end, but actually it was the final nail in the coffin for the enchanting proffession.

[mysticx]

Since this turned into an "enchanters' injustice" debate, i'll chime in on it.

All the LFD disenchanting does is lower mat-prices (due to enchanters losing their sharding-monopoly), loss of profit margins is due to enchanters furiously undercutting one another with scrolls on AH, that they do that isn't the fault of non-enchanters, profit isn't strictly dependent on mat-costs, profit is the bit where demand, supply and price-setting come in, and that part is purely the enchanters' work...

[Ferg]

You realize that enchanters are the ones that drive down their own prices, right?

[nyxxx]

why do engineers have to explode

I would also like the answer to this.

[usiris]

Since this turned into an "enchanters' injustice" debate, i'll chime in on it.

All the LFD disenchanting does is lower mat-prices (due to enchanters losing their sharding-monopoly), loss of profit margins is due to enchanters furiously undercutting one another with scrolls on AH, that they do that isn't the fault of non-enchanters, profit isn't strictly dependent on mat-costs, profit is the bit where demand, supply and price-setting come in, and that part is purely the enchanters' work...

If were gona go down that road, its the fault of the people who have no idea how to function in the ah by undercutting for ridiculous amounts and not being informed of current trends in the economy.

[Quetak]

Mysticx: You are wrong. Why are scroll prizes so low? Because everyone has his own material and nobody is buying complete enchants from AH becaouse it cost more than if they bring own mats(or buy it raw on ah) to enchanter to make an enchant. It is simply. There are lot of enchant scrolls on AH but nobody wants them until the prize will be equal to raw material, ppl thinks more economicaly then in past.

[Tinytim]

waaah-waaah-waaah call the waaah-mbulance. If you're finding it hard to make money from enchanting you're not doing it right. I'm a no-lifer and have most proffessions at max level (apart from JC, but thats because I hate doing dailies) and the 2 proffs I make most money from are Ench and Insc. The problem is everyone is selling the same scrolls on the AH and undercutting each other. If you want to make money look at whats not on the AH before you make that scroll. I had ench back in the day before the LFD DE option was put in, sure you could make more money on each ench but it took forever to get mats yourself and alot of the time people would just not enchant their gear because it was too expensive. The idea is that everyone gears up as they go, and as they go they need new enchants. Sure youre not selling 1 ench for big money but you are selling loads of small prices for an overall larger total.

As far as mat prices being cheaper than the finished product goes, that suits me fine. My scribe hasnt farmed herbs since 4.0.6 and I'm still making 1-2k profit per day.

What I'm basically saying is don't blame LFD DE because you don't know how to work the AH