(Resto Druid) T12 Bonus

[frostybeef]

I am kinda confused about people saying you can't control when LB blooms. You can exactly control it - it blooms 10s after you last cast it.

In raids there are many many times when you can predict precisely, or very closely, when raid wide AOE damage is coming. Popping ToL 10s before that and having 3-4 blooms ready to pop during that AOE is going to be awesome.

You can predict when you need healing but on a lot of fights you can't predict who and where you'll need it. Depending upon the range of this, it could be hugely situational. Also, you have to not use healing touch or nourish on your LB target for 9 seconds or you need to respec to make use of this.

Yes, 4-piece will be great for ToL but outside of ToL it's very lackluster.

[winzi]

I am kinda confused about people saying you can't control when LB blooms. You can exactly control it - it blooms 10s after you last cast it.

In raids there are many many times when you can predict precisely, or very closely, when raid wide AOE damage is coming. Popping ToL 10s before that and having 3-4 blooms ready to pop during that AOE is going to be awesome.

You know when it will proc yes, but you don't always know when the damage comes, you can't rely on it for spike heals since the damage can come to long before it blooms or just after you refreshed the stack.

And yes many times you do know when the actual damage will come, but even then... unless it's raid wide, you don't always know who will get the damage.

Popping ToL 10sec before is not going to be worthwhile, a bloom with 1 stack is to weak to make any major difference, you would rather get as many up as possible and as highly stacked you can to. Then you will get awesome AoE healing.

Heroic Chimaeron just before hitting p2 timing it between a fued and a massacre would be pure awesomeness, but who is going to do T11 content when you are in full T12? And I really really hope blizzard never comes up with an encounter like that ever again.

[talkaboom]

Sad to see the 4-piece bonus being such a downer.
However, there is a slight advantage to it. LB end up blooming only if we are too busy healing others and we don't get time to refresh it. That generally happens during phases of intense damage. In that scenario, 2 free heals may not be so bad.
Still better than the randomly placed lightwell priests will get imo. But they will probably be mixing 2 pieces of the shadow set anyway.

[Dendrek]

As long as it's not impossible it's possible, meaning it have a chance of happening even if the probability is low.
So based on the numbers in your OP post the chance although low is still 5*186.35=931,75mp5 while the probable value you end up with is 372,7mp5.

The probability that every single tick ends up procing the bonus in a 5 minute fight is:
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005515%

In other words, it's impossible. Please be careful not to assume that because something is RNG that events can occur which are beyond the scope of reality.

[swills]

And yes many times you do know when the actual damage will come, but even then... unless it's raid wide, you don't always know who will get the damage.

It's pretty much always raid wide though. Magmaw's Lava Spew, Chimaeron's Feud, Atramedes' Sonar Pulse, Nef's crackle... all of these are predictable and raid wide, and often have ppl grouped up. Yes I know there will be a new raid but Blizzard has shown past form for raid-wide AOEs so far.

Popping ToL 10sec before is not going to be worthwhile, a bloom with 1 stack is to weak to make any major difference, you would rather get as many up as possible and as highly stacked you can to. Then you will get awesome AoE healing.

Hmm, that's not really correct. LB blooms for the same amount no matter if it's single on three people or triple on one person (a single LB is 7k bloom for me, a triple is 21k). If you just spammed LB on 10 different people who will be grouped then every GCD you would have 21k of healing going off (7k bloom on the target plus two others, that's before crits and raid buffs) basically throughout any AOE phase while TOL is active. It's also smart healing remember.

[Kavak]

The 4 piece is situation at best. Yes you can decide when it will bloom, but for those 10 seconds you can't cast Regrowth, Nourish or Healing Touch on the target to make it bloom otherwise it'll refresh lifebloom. You can always spec out of Empowered Touch, but then you take a 10% hit to those aforementioned spells. I foresee getting the 2 piece and just going for nonset pieces for the rest if it isn't changed.

[Dendrek]

If I ever had to tank heal, I'd use 2 piece only. If I'm raid healing, I'd use 4 piece if I had it.

[Myrrar]

4 piece is going to depend on a lot of things and we wont really know how good it is until we test it.

In ToL you can not bother fast stacking 3 LBs on everyone. That would make you loose waaaay too much healing on other people. So really, the only thing we will be doing now is putting one stack up and letting it bloom.

Lets say in tree 1 LB procs for 9k non-crit. That's 27k healing in an instant if it doesn't go to overheal and people are close enough.

But, one of the most amazing things about tree is the large amount of CC procs. You wont be able to use these besides on the tanks who will probably be getting spammed by someone else anyway. You also loose the base healing of actually putting 2-3 stacks on people with debuffs or low health which happens often. You either give them more base passive healing and ignore the 4 piece or loose out on that and have the 4 piece possibly go to overheal.

It's also now a massive mana CD now if it stays this way due to 2 piece. So, when do you pop it? Most of the time low mana + mega burst do not go hand in hand. This will help keep your mana stable during burst but as said, you wont really be changing anything and mana is never an issue after ToL anyway. You will still be WGing and SMing. You will actually be using LB more than RJ now. It's already making an extremely mana efficient CD more efficient not even counting the 2 piece. Add in the 2 piece regen and it's actually kind of wasted during a burst phase. (not wasted, just not really needed).

If you decide to save the CD to when you need the mana, most of the time the majority of that healing will go to overheal, probably the amount you would have gained in ToL vs. just healing.

On massive bursts you can't waste time waiting for LBs to bloom so you use RJ anyway, once again negating both pieces.
So, we'll just have to see. Some fights it will be amazing. Fights where burst + low mana goes hand in hand. A lot of fights, it wont.

[Deleted]

=(

I don't really understand Blizz. They know these numbers. They know as much as we do on how much mana the talents will return. Why do they even release info/sets on the ptr unbalanced.

The 4 piece doesn't make sense either. Force people to let their main 'passive' ability to bloom wasting 3 GCDs and mana while all other classes do not have to change their healing at all besides shamans who don't use CH. Even then, it's just going to push CH over a few direct heals without really hitting their mana.

As for the 4 piece Myrrar I actually think it's going to be extremely good, even if you just do one bloom on each raid member during ToL form, this is going to be massive, my LB final tick is around 8-9k non crit. That is then jumped to 2 characters next to that person, so thats 27k, for is it 2k mana?
On a GCD capped spell, that is insane.

[Sugarrnspice]

On a GCD capped spell, that is insane.

That's the thing though, lifebloom isnt even close to being gcd capped. So relative to rejuv, the healing per cast is unfortunately low, although slightly offset with the new bloom hitting three targets as opposed to 1(best case scenario with group being in range and assuming 0 overheals)

EDIT: Imo, the talent which reduces rejuvs gcd by .5 should also affect lifebloom, even if only in tree or something(With our current setup, I cant afford the HPS loss from blanketting with lifeblooms and i only use tree for the extra wg bonus and 15% extra heals)

IMO, we should get a new ability that acts similar to swiftmend but requires lifebloom instead. Healing based on the number of hots currently on the target and at the time same time eating the lifebloom to proc this 4 set. Perhaps it could refresh the lifebloom on its target with 2 less stacks than the target originally had when cast or something which would offset the downtime spent reapplying stacks

This will let us benefit from our 4 peice without disrupting our overall healing strategy. Tbh, my mental bandwidth is already pushed to the limits, id rather not have another thing to worry about( precasting blooms to have them pop post-dmg)

I just find, even with 4.2 level gear, i wont have much more than 2-2.5k haste rating(pure speculation). That said, itll take roughly 4 seconds to reapply the 3 stack which i find very unattractive. Currently, it takes me 10 seconds to blanket my raid with rejuv, it takes roughly 30% longer to do the same with lifebloom at a reduced/delayed healing output(due to the bloom)(not feasible but for comparision purposes)

If this 4 set goes live, i cant see myself using tree for anything but a mana cd during low dmg phases, blanketting in lifebloom.

[Chopperdavid]

The 4 piece could see a talent change as well, moving away from Empowered Touch and putting those talent points in something else. That, or it will make us more in to raid healers since we won't be able to actively heal the tank with RG/NR/HT anymore if that talent points don't change.

[Sprucelee]

The people who do not see how great the 4-piece will be are doing it wrong.

Because it is quite clear that this is an extreme buff to ToL LB spam, and that is one of my most important tools for fights. Basically this is a giant buff to something I already do. Even though I only see this as a buff to ToL, it's worth it, I don't need throughput, I need more tools to burst heal and this sends ToL to a level more on par with tranq.

Its funny reading people threorycrafting on why it would be bad, it just leaves me wondering how people could not already understand the power of its current use, much less with the bonus. In its current state it allows me to heal at a sustained 20k+ HPS while keeping mana static. The bolded part is the most important. Not only will this buff it directly, it appears it will also make it a smart heal.

I already have it timed for mechanics in every current encounter, don't really understand how people have problems working it..

[Ormula]

The people who do not see how great the 4-piece will be are doing it wrong.

Because it is quite clear that this is an extreme buff to ToL LB spam, and that is one of my most important tools for fights. Basically this is a giant buff to something I already do. Even though I only see this as a buff to ToL, it's worth it, I don't need throughput, I need more tools to burst heal and this sends ToL to a level more on par with tranq.

Its funny reading people threorycrafting on why it would be bad, it just leaves me wondering how people could not already understand the power of its current use, much less with the bonus. In its current state it allows me to heal at a sustained 20k+ HPS while keeping mana static. The bolded part is the most important. Not only will this buff it directly, it appears it will also make it a smart heal.

I already have it timed for mechanics in every current encounter, don't really understand how people have problems working it..

It's not that the use in ToL on bursty healing fights is bad, that's a very cool mechanic that they're possibly going to push. However, the problem arises when you shouldn't even really let LB pop outside of ToL, because it's three GCDs to get it back up again. So we're talking about a 4pc you utilize 2, maybe 3 times an encounter. What if, like the last couple of tiers, the pieces aren't itemized very well? It will be a very interesting decision.

And even still, there are some encounters where I would not use this 4pc, and some encounters I would definitely use it.

[Myrrar]

Its funny reading people threorycrafting on why it would be bad, it just leaves me wondering how people could not already understand the power of its current use, much less with the bonus. In its current state it allows me to heal at a sustained 20k+ HPS while keeping mana static. The bolded part is the most important. Not only will this buff it directly, it appears it will also make it a smart heal.

You should reread all the posts. It will only be more effective if you change the way you heal with it now. Tbh, it's only going to normalize it healing wise while giving it massively more regen, which isn't exactly needed. No one is saying it's bad. People are just saying it's going to be so random and drastically different every time you use based on the fight, but it's too early to judge it.

[Yazus]

2pc bonus is good. It will depend on luck and will be RNG since it has a 40% chance to proc (remember Divine Storm procs at 40%?).

4pc is useless in normal form and overpowered in ToL. Just spam LB on EVERYONE and let it bloom. Use your CC procs on the tank that will have its 3stack lb.

[utopianh]

No one is saying it's bad.

Actually most of the people in the thread have been hyperbolic in arguing that it is bad - Spruce and my post are two of the only ones that have focused on why this is a buff to druid burst healing capabilities, something we drastically need, still. While it would be nice to have a bonus that effected us all the time, this is like a bonus that would read "Increases your healing in Tree of Life by 30%" which would hardly be a bad thing on it's own, but this is massive and raid wide healing, and possibly an even greater increase in overall healing under the effect of ToL.

Arguing that it's not useful outside of ToL is very narrow minded, considering how big an increase to healing on LB this is, it's not surprising that it has downsides.

Basically this is a bonus you'll use every ToL, and in addition, any time you make a mistake or have to let LB drop off, you get bonus aoe healing to make up for it. This is a very good set bonus and far better than something like increased healing to rejuv or lifebloom, unlike what most of the thread is arguing. We hardly need more output over time, we need more burst, and I like this better than a boost to regrowth.

[GeaMyaLor]

Tbh, I'd like to see LB usable on multiple people but have a maximum of 3 applications out at once. So you could have 3 people with 1 stack, one person with 2 and another with 1, or one person with 3... (I can dream can't I!?)

I had this exact same idea the other day! That would be an awesome change to LB whether it be an innate change or through a tier bonus or something. I exclaimed this in raid the other night and since no one else plays a resto druid they were just sort of... meh I'm not a druid so idk if that would be cool or not

[t3hj0j0]

I'll post this here since it seems relevant to the conversation, this is from the Paly set bonus thread, written by ALCH3MIST:

Hmm, let's compare all the healing 2P T12 sets.

Holy Paladin:
Casting Flash of Light, Holy Light, or Divine Light on your Beacon of Light target has a 40% chance to grant you 2% of your base mana.

Holy/Discipline Priest:
Your Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal spells cause you to regenerate 2% of your base mana every 5 sec for 15 sec.

Restoration Shaman:
Your periodic healing from Riptide has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

Restoration Druid:
Your periodic healing from Lifebloom has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

With that information let's see in my last log (Maloriak 25H) how those set bonuses are used.

I seem (Holy Paladin) to have healed my beacon 8 times with Divine Light,4 times with Holy Light and 0 times with Flash of Light
This would mean the bonus would have trigger 4-5 times, restoring 8-10% base mana.

Going to our Holy Priest, he seems to used Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal all together 20 times.
This would restore 120% base mana. (If not overlapping each other)

Then our Restoration Shaman, his riptide ticked 305 times over the whole fight.
This means his set bonus triggered 122 times, restoring 122% base mana.

Last our Restoration Druid, his lifebloom ticked 404 times over the whole fight.
this means his set bonus triggered 161 or 162 times, restoring 161%-162% base mana.

TL;DR:

Maloriak 25HM - 10 Min Fight

2P T12 compared:
Paladin - Restored 8-10% base mana
Priest - Restored 120% base mana
Shaman - Restored 122% base mana
Druid - Restored 161-162% base mana

As you can see, the paly T12 set bonus is not worth that much MP5, its worth pretty much nothing (the point of beacon is to almsot NEVER have to heal the person, so we don't heal the person with beacon much, if ever)

secondly, your 2 piece is the best if RNG favors everyone at the exact listed amount. Your 4 piece is kind of like our 2 piece, it goes against the way you typically heal.

[Dendrek]

A few things to keep in mind t3h:

1) His is anecdotal evidence. So those figures shouldn't be taken as "facts" but should instead be considered a point of reference by which we might be able to consider how these bonuses compare.

2) Healing rotations will inevitably change if players are benefited by doing so. So all of those numbers will likely go up by a significant amount for players who are actively trying to keep their 2-piece bonus running. In other words, expect the numbers to be much higher once people start getting their 2 piece set. If you see players in your raid not adjusting their healing style after they get 2 piece, it doesn't mean the 2 piece is bad, it means those players are "doing it wrong."

3) It's not clear if Blizzard intends for Paladins to directly heal their beacon target. In fact, considering the nature of these set bonuses, that requirement wouldn't make sense. The other three bonuses are somewhat passive (in that the heals which trigger them are already regularly used, and those players may only have to change their healing "rotations" slightly to keep the bonus going). Why would Blizzard expect Paladins to completely change how they heal to keep their bonus going? I think it's more likely that any time your beacon heals its target (from one of those sources) you have a chance to proc the bonus. In other words, I think it's more likely you just have to keep beacon up and heal *someone* to proc your bonus.

[t3hj0j0]

Your first point is true, but the other 2 are iffy:

1) Yep, I posted it as that (should have clarified that). The post wasn't just meant to show that yours was "OMG WTF OP", just to show where they stand after a current tier long fight.

2) The thing is, that doesn't apply to our bonus because our bonus is not even close to being worth a play style change. We don't have many mana problems as is, and the little given back by this doesn't come close to the wasted healing that could and should be done.

3) That isn't how it is worded "Casting Flash of Light, Holy Light, or Divine Light on your Beacon of Light target has a 40% chance to grant you 2% of your base mana." Logs show beacon of light heals as "Beacon of Light healed X for Y" (I believe, if not Beacon, it is NOT worded as the heal you used). If that is how it is supposed to work, that would be more in line with other classes bonuses, but that is not how it is worded.