Lack of DPS, what can I do?

[Maxie]

Hello there, as a starting note I'm sorry if this isn't the correct forum section for a thread like this, but...

Long story short, my guild is at Cho'gall now, and our DPS is lacking, severely. I don't really understand why, we are missing a few, few raidbuffs, but I doubt that it could have a huge enough impact to be an excuse for our poor DPS.

The odd thing is that most of our DPS:ers (with one exception) are in pretty good gear, and I still top the meters when I go DPS for the one tank fights, and when I tried out DPS:ing in a non guild group on Cho'gall, I managed pull 17-19k DPS as an Arms warrior in ~354 ger, which is, as you can see in the link below, far better than what our DPS:ers are pulling (it's the sad truth, and i wish i could give that dps to my dpsers instead. I'd love to be terrible if they were good, lol).

WoL link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7.../?s=923&e=1468

Note:

1: we do have an Spriest which generally pulls DPS that I'd actually call good, but today was his birthday, so he wasn't there.

2: Today was a worse raid comp than usual, due to said Spriest's absence.

What can I, as a raid leader, do, except for replacing/playing their characters for them, to make them perform? They certainly have the gear to pull decent DPS, but they aint doing it (mind controls are broken nicely enough so that's not the problem). Are they simply terrible?

Edit: Just to add another example, ignore the lagnus guy, it was pugger. Also we're on Shattered Hand EU, if you want to armory anyone.

Twin drakes link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...e/?s=467&e=861

[Coolio2]

You guys aren't missing raid buffs and your DPS is in good gear. You just now are working on Cho'gall.
Sounds to me like they are just bad. They need to read up on elitistjerks and mmo-champion. They need to get their rotations down. They need to know the appropriate time to use CDs. They need food and flasks for every fight. They should be pre-potting as well as potting again either for the 4th set of slimes or in phase 2.

[baelon]

Most wow players are bad. Now that dps matters more than it has in the past, it's becoming an issue. Players refuse to read their class forum stickies or, god forbid, the "nerd-ese" at EJ. They're specced wrong even though Blizzard made that damn near impossible to do. They're gemmed & enchanted wrong, if they even have gems or enchants, and their glyphs are wrong. They click spells, turn with their keyboard, and god knows what else.

[Dasani]

A lot of players play under this notion that there is no right or wrong way to play. That they can just gear or gem or spec based entirely on their personal preference without it impacting their effectiveness and this line of thinking is completely false.

If they aren't specced, gemming, and playing correctly they will always be sub-par.

In WOW, there is a right and a wrong way to do everything, there is a "little" grey area such as glyphs or "extra" talent points left over that indirectly benefit your character but the vast vast majority is right or wrong.

[ttkyle]

I'm in similar gear as the rogue and pull 18-21k on cho'gall normal. Tell him to go combat and have him stay on the boss the whole time.

When adds are up in p2 if cho'gall is in the throne the rogue can own them hard with blade flurry.

[taishar68]

Really good DPS, while not ignoring mechanics and standing in every bad thing a raid throws out at you, takes as much skill as good tanking and good healing. That said, most fights do not require insane numbers to down bosses, the only people that require high DPS numbers are forum trolls who dump on everything they can.

Terms like "hard" and "bad" are relative terms, and depend on so many factors that they lose the meaning that should come across, i.e., your guild needs to improve. If your guild does not want to improve enough for your tastes, you can try to recruit players who are better at playing their classes, or find a guild that suits your skill level...but if it is a guild of people you like, you'll have to motivate them to new heights, which can be easy depending on your approach.

Many people I have encountered who under-perform did not realize how they could improve, and just figured good enough was good enough. Try challenging them to improve; show them parses of people in similar gear and what they do, if you can.

From a practical standpoint, are your DPS gemmed/enchanted/reforged/specced/buffed correctly? For one individual, a bad gem may not mean anything, but multiply that by x bad choices by 5 DPS, and that can be a large amount lost. With low DPS, your fights are taking a long time, which means your DPS should be doing at least 2 burn cycles per fight, where all CD's are popped (preferably at moments that take advantage of a bosses weakness, like Magmaw and Al'Akir)

Ultimately it comes down to how much effort they want to put in it, and don't let all the negativity get to you; people find it easy to say "they are just bad", which is a childish way of looking at it. Good luck, you will get him down soon!

[stickyjam]

those numbers arent far off what youd expect with a full blue heroic gear

[Druchii]

How many times have you pulled this fight?

I know my guild didn't start to actually "click" with mechanics until a good 10 attempts in or so... It can take a while for people to learn the rhythm of a fight. (Once they do, they perform better, generally).

I could suggest getting them to check out class forums, guides and EJ though, as said above.

[Focault]

When my old 10man guild was working on Cho'gall the thing that increased our dps the most was reducing the movement in the fight. DPS the add on the side where the main dps can just pivot and nuke him (while sliding out from getting hit by missiles) and then have just 1 ranged go with tank to finish him off in back while other dps get those extra 4-5 seconds back dpsing the boss before the slimes show. Once we got this down and got to where we only had 3 sets of slimes instead of 4 things became much easier.

[Deleted]

After the third add phase (big one + slimes), just go all out on the boss (save the hero for phase 2) and ignore the big add (have your tank pick him up). If you reach 25% before the slimes spawn, the big add will despawn, saving you that 4th and potentially devastating wave of slimes.

[Gramgaido]

A few of your DPSers are low, but the largest DPS increase comes from the strategy on Cho'Gall. Try to minimalize the Adherents and Blood of the Old Gods, particularly with your melee. We had a Ret Paladin stay on the boss full time to maximize Cho'Gall's damage and only a few AoE's slows and stuns are necessary on the first few waves of Bloods. The overall goal is to get as much damage on Cho'Gall while keeping the adds and corruption under control, play with the fight some to see what works.

[awarietta]

those numbers arent far off what youd expect with a full blue heroic gear

Not true; people with full blue heroic gear should be at least 13-15k. I'd look at active time (how many actions are they performing for the duration of the fight) and buff durations. I believe that your warlock should increase his uptime of Improved Soul Fire, but patch 4.1 may have changed things... However, I can speak for your hunter.

I'm a bit rusty, but MM hunters should be casting rapid fire twice every 3:30s. He should be popping it at least twice during careful aim phase (at the start, because all buffs stacked together increases dps exponentially). If he wants to increase his dps even further, just have him go survival and solo little add waves 1 and possibly 2. Additionally, it doesn't show him using Hawk or Fox at any time during the fight =(. There's probably more niche hunter tips, but I haven't played MM in a very long time for my 10m. I haven't really checked his gear either.

Additionally, have every raid member invest in buying pre-pots and actually using them. Additionally, no one should get any corrupted blood prior to phase. Yes, it's possible.

I'll attach one of our recent cho'gall 10N reports:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hv8smuko39fh29ox/

[Deleted]

Your hunter's highest damage source is auto shot. There's not a single hunter spec where that is supposed to happen.

[Focault]

Not true; people with full blue heroic gear should be at least 13-15k. I'd look at active time (how many actions are they performing for the duration of the fight) and buff durations. I believe that your warlock should increase his uptime of Improved Soul Fire, but patch 4.1 may have changed things... However, I can speak for your hunter.

I'm a bit rusty, but MM hunters should be casting rapid fire twice every 3:30s. He should be popping it at least twice during careful aim phase (at the start, because all buffs stacked together increases dps exponentially). If he wants to increase his dps even further, just have him go survival and solo little add waves 1 and possibly 2. Additionally, it doesn't show him using Hawk or Fox at any time during the fight =(. There's probably more niche hunter tips, but I haven't played MM in a very long time for my 10m. I haven't really checked his gear either.

Additionally, have every raid member invest in buying pre-pots and actually using them. Additionally, no one should get any corrupted blood prior to phase. Yes, it's possible.

I'll attach one of our recent cho'gall 10N reports:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hv8smuko39fh29ox/

Overall pretty good advice except for the survival part. With the huge buff to multi-shot, MM does better AoE damage than survival now too so no real use currently to be anything other than MM if you are trying to push out the most dps, with the standard caveat that you might be specced BM or Surv if your raid needs that respective buff.

[Thetalisker]

Your hunter's highest damage source is auto shot. There's not a single hunter spec where that is supposed to happen.

Apart from the fact that as MM he's been using Kill Command, ofc...

[Focault]

There's little doubt your hunter is bad just in case that wasn't clear lol

[awarietta]

Overall pretty good advice except for the survival part. With the huge buff to multi-shot, MM does better AoE damage than survival now too so no real use currently to be anything other than MM if you are trying to push out the most dps, with the standard caveat that you might be specced BM or Surv if your raid needs that respective buff.

Better AoE? I'm not totally sure if I can agree with that, but the primary role of survival is the utility to enhance overall raid dps, while still keeping consistent and high damage. If the hunter could solo 1-2 waves of little adds solo, while only needing one more dps to assist waves 3-4, the overall dps on Cho'gall would increase.

[Focault]

Oh yeah Awarietta, it is absolutely ridiculous how overpowered multi-shot is for MM now. All the damage is front-loaded now with the 250% damage buff and with marks getting the half-focus refund if you crit on *any* of the individual multi-shots it is insanely spammable just by starting the AoE phase with a full focus bar. Add in the fact that you can back to back rapid fire with it if needed (slimes on Maloriak, heroic Halfus etc) and it gets pretty ridiculous.

Survival is still good in 10man if you need someone to bring the 10% raid haste buff but other than that RIP good buddy and favorite spec.

[Manormyth]

Your Deepsers are bad. They are taking way to much 100% avoidable damage. And as pointed out above some of them do not understand how their class works. You need to let them know without dancing around the subject that they need to do research on their class and implement what they have learned. Address DPS addons as well as rotations. Feet to fire is needed.

[awarietta]

Hmm,

*shrug*

I'll try it out; looks promising.