[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Life-Binder]

undead Viserion is my spirit animal

[Themanintobuildafire]

Was it? Because in the books I'm certain the wall isn't going to get destroyed by a dragon. Furthermore I also doubt Daenerys will lose Viseryion North of the wall. You had no way of knowing it would happen.

I left the books long ago...going by the breadcrumbs the writers have been giving us over the past two years there have been a lot of thoughts of those three dragons and their purpose. Daenerys rides one of the 3...what about the other 2?

Also, the books are a SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. We have seen the fire, so where is the ice? I made two predictions: either John is the ice and he would get an ice dragon, or the undead would kill a dragon and make it into an ice dragon. I also believe john will end up taking that ice dragon before all is done.

[Vestig3]

Omg not this raven stuff again....besides Sam is much faster with a wagon and gilly with child then a raven

[Ilikegreenfire]

Omg not this raven stuff again....besides Sam is much faster with a wagon and gilly with child then a raven

Sam left in episode 5. He had a massive head start.

[Kellorion]

Tyrion better not turn on Dany.

And 2019 is bullshit. Fucking Bullshit. Dont care if each episode is 1 1/2 long or whatever, do a late season, mid fall.

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Incest is wincest, right!?!?!

I mean it is Khaleesi...blonde Emilia.....so.... :/

[eschatological]

I mean, it's not like Westerosi houses have alarms and dead bolts. I imagine most places which aren't castles or keeps are pretty easy to get into.

The question of Essos is an interesting one. The Song of Ice and Fire seems to pertain particularly to Westeros. The story of the Children of the Forest is particular to Westeros. It may be that the NK will be happy having and holding Westeros, and humanity will have to settle for Essos, which is already partially destroyed by the Doom of Valyria, which isn't talked about much in the show.

[xuros]

Yea they should have gotten Thrandruil to do Rhaegar #NotMyRhaegar

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that.

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Tyrion better not turn on Dany.

And 2019 is bullshit. Fucking Bullshit. Dont care if each episode is 1 1/2 long or whatever, do a late season, mid fall.

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I mean it is Khaleesi...blonde Emilia.....so.... :/

Did hey confirm 2019? if so ...sigh

[jimboa24]

Littlefinger got exactly the ending he deserved, and what was fitting for his character. Look, I get there are a lot of fans who think that Littlefinger was this master puppeteer, someone who was way, way more clever than anyone else, high above it all, no way he gets taken out by a bunch of kids, right?

No. Wrong. Fucking wrong.

Littlefinger, first of all, is not anywhere near as clever as he projects. In season 2, episode 6, as he's talking to Tywin Lannister of the aftermath of Renly's death, he says, with a smug air of knowing superiority, "it is my belief that a moment of chaos affords opportunities lost soon after!" Tywin scoffs, and replies, "you say that as if you were the first man alive to think it."

That is Littlefinger in a nutshell. He's a glorified conman, and he thrives in situations where he can prey upon someone particularly weak, stupid or gullible. Like Lysa and Robin Arryn, or Sansa when she was younger. Littlefinger's main weakness is his arrogance. He is so convinced of his own cleverness that he makes spectacularly idiotic mistakes - like murdering Lysa right in front of Sansa. This hubris made him believe that Sansa was far less intelligent and perceptive than she actually was - it never occurred to him that after watching him for years, she might start to pick up on his bullshit and learn how to beat him at his own game. I do think that the final scene where the Starks confront Littlefinger could have and should have been better set up. That being said, his fall at the hands of the (former) children that he victimized and preyed upon is absolutely perfectly fitting. Eventually, all con men get caught, and in Westeros, that means a knife slicing your throat open.

The only thing I want to know is, now that Littlefinger is dead, does anyone else think he will be making an "appearance" in season 8? After all, Cersei is still on Arya's list, and Littlefinger could probably get some "face" time with Cersei.

[eschatological]

Well, yeah, I don't think anyone has a problem with LF being bested by his former pupil - just that the manner of his besting was sloppily written and set up, and his decisions in the last two seasons wrote the character into an illogical corner for his usual behavior. Hell, written into an illogical corner for his actual stated behavior in this episode and the previous episode where he mentions thinking about all the possibilities.

[jimboa24]

Well, yeah, I don't think anyone has a problem with LF being bested by his former pupil - just that the manner of his besting was sloppily written and set up, and his decisions in the last two seasons wrote the character into an illogical corner for his usual behavior. Hell, written into an illogical corner for his actual stated behavior in this episode and the previous episode where he mentions thinking about all the possibilities.

His whole little speech about thinking about all the possibilities sounds far more intelligent than it actually is. It's not possible to consider every possible outcome to everything, but whatever. I think that LF's decisions over the last many seasons (ever since he killed Lyssa) just simply highlight that LF is way, way overrated in terms of cleverness and masterminding. He ended up slumming it in the North because he's a con man past his prime, hung up on a lost love, projecting that attachment quite creepily onto her daughter, fucking up left and right, and ultimately getting himself killed.

[elaina]

Time isn't nearly as big an issue in the show as folks make it out to be. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the normal 10 episodes (or 7 for this season) take 1 year to transpire. So there's, on average, more than a months time happening in and between episodes.

Huh? You completely made this up. Citation please.

[xcess]

Littlefinger got exactly the ending he deserved, and what was fitting for his character. Look, I get there are a lot of fans who think that Littlefinger was this master puppeteer, someone who was way, way more clever than anyone else, high above it all, no way he gets taken out by a bunch of kids, right?

No. Wrong. Fucking wrong.
The only thing I want to know is, now that Littlefinger is dead, does anyone else think he will be making an "appearance" in season 8? After all, Cersei is still on Arya's list, and Littlefinger could probably get some "face" time with Cersei.

He lived longer than most, I think it was Bran knowing everything was more his undoing. I dont think Arya needs the face anyway, she could easily take out the guards now if she wanted to, but she would have to kill for two if shes killing Cersei

[eschatological]

His whole little speech about thinking about all the possibilities sounds far more intelligent than it actually is. It's not possible to consider every possible outcome to everything, but whatever. I think that LF's decisions over the last many seasons (ever since he killed Lyssa) just simply highlight that LF is way, way overrated in terms of cleverness and masterminding. He ended up slumming it in the North because he's a con man past his prime, hung up on a lost love, projecting that attachment quite creepily onto her daughter, fucking up left and right, and ultimately getting himself killed.

I think you're attaching character flaws to a character to excuse the marked drop off in quality for writing characters like Littlefinger. Hell, cf Varys, in that regard as well. And you're falling in the same trap as everyone else of excusing his poor decisions as being blinded by his old love for Cat, despite him using her AND her daughter as pawns. He was *at* Harrenhal with Tywin while he was conspiring the Red Wedding with the Freys. His collaboration led directly to Cat's death. And that was before any "arrogance undid him."

[Yvaelle]

His whole little speech about thinking about all the possibilities sounds far more intelligent than it actually is. It's not possible to consider every possible outcome to everything, but whatever. I think that LF's decisions over the last many seasons (ever since he killed Lyssa) just simply highlight that LF is way, way overrated in terms of cleverness and masterminding. He ended up slumming it in the North because he's a con man past his prime, hung up on a lost love, projecting that attachment quite creepily onto her daughter, fucking up left and right, and ultimately getting himself killed.

I think you are like, 90% correct.

I think the bit you missed is that Littlefinger views Sansa as his prodigy - he knows she's picking up on his bullshit - he knows she's learning his tricks and applying them herself. In his mind, given he doesn't have children of his own, and has no guarentees that if he had kids they'd turn out like him - having kids offers no sense of immortality to Littlefinger the way it does to most parents.

Instead, being the narcissist that he is, moulding Sansa in his own image is the closest thing to immortality that he has. I think in a way he knows he is past his prime at scheming, everyone suspects him now and the game of lies has shifted so much from what it once was that it's kind of boring for him right now: which is in turn why he has becoming boring.

In a sense, Sansa betraying him and murdering him to create political clout for herself over the nobles of Winterfell, and to gain political capital with the lords of the vale - probably gets him hotter than anything: she did what he would have done. Albeit not as well, because she's young and inexperienced at this sort of betrayal - but she has learned his ways, and applied them - his immortality is achieved - Sansa is the new Littlefinger. I suspect we will see more of that to come actually in season 8.

He's absolutely arrogant and sloppy, and full of himself. To be fair to the character though, in the books he is definitely portrayed to be this actually genius schemer - whereas in the show - particularly the last couple seasons - he's been mostly an idiot. More than anything, I think the issue is D&D just don't know how to write him as well as GRRM does.

I agree it's a pretty fitting end for him. That said, my immediate thought upon him dying was, "unintended consequences". I suspect that killing Littlefinger will have impacts they didn't expect. I would not put it past Littlefinger to be the sort of narcissistic prick to have a clause somewhere, "in the event of my death, send 100 ravens carrying 100 secrets to all the far reaches of the world, turn everyone against one another" - just because that's the sort of juvenile elegy he would plan to honor himself.

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I think you're attaching character flaws to a character to excuse the marked drop off in quality for writing characters like Littlefinger. Hell, cf Varys, in that regard as well. And you're falling in the same trap as everyone else of excusing his poor decisions as being blinded by his old love for Cat, despite him using her AND her daughter as pawns. He was *at* Harrenhal with Tywin while he was conspiring the Red Wedding with the Freys. His collaboration led directly to Cat's death. And that was before any "arrogance undid him."

Yea fair enough, the biggest issue LF suffers lately is definitely that D&D are not as good at clever characters and dialogue as GRRM. Hence that LF, Varys, Tirion, etc - are all acting like boring idiots lately.

[Eazy]

Anton Lesser is doing a fantastic job. You could see Qyburn getting a boner as he lifted up the undead's hand.

He's superb.

Now with littlefinger gone I hope we get more Qyburn. Great character, and he was loving the undead and its hand

I'd like to see him discovering something that they could fight with the whitewalkers. (new Plague - Grand Apothecary Putress)

Or... some poison/mixture that change other people to zombies, who obey him(something like The Mountain).

[Ilikegreenfire]

I think you are like, 90% correct.

I think the bit you missed is that Littlefinger views Sansa as his prodigy - he knows she's picking up on his bullshit - he knows she's learning his tricks and applying them herself. In his mind, given he doesn't have children of his own, and has no guarentees that if he had kids they'd turn out like him - having kids offers no sense of immortality to Littlefinger the way it does to most parents.

Instead, being the narcissist that he is, moulding Sansa in his own image is the closest thing to immortality that he has. I think in a way he knows he is past his prime at scheming, everyone suspects him now and the game of lies has shifted so much from what it once was that it's kind of boring for him right now: which is in turn why he has becoming boring.

In a sense, Sansa betraying him and murdering him to create political clout for herself over the nobles of Winterfell, and to gain political capital with the lords of the vale - probably gets him hotter than anything: she did what he would have done. Albeit not as well, because she's young and inexperienced at this sort of betrayal - but she has learned his ways, and applied them - his immortality is achieved - Sansa is the new Littlefinger. I suspect we will see more of that to come actually in season 8.

He's absolutely arrogant and sloppy, and full of himself. To be fair to the character though, in the books he is definitely portrayed to be this actually genius schemer - whereas in the show - particularly the last couple seasons - he's been mostly an idiot. More than anything, I think the issue is D&D just don't know how to write him as well as GRRM does.

I agree it's a pretty fitting end for him. That said, my immediate thought upon him dying was, "unintended consequences". I suspect that killing Littlefinger will have impacts they didn't expect. I would not put it past Littlefinger to be the sort of narcissistic prick to have a clause somewhere, "in the event of my death, send 100 ravens carrying 100 secrets to all the far reaches of the world, turn everyone against one another" - just because that's the sort of juvenile elegy he would plan to honor himself.

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Yea fair enough, the biggest issue LF suffers lately is definitely that D&D are not as good at clever characters and dialogue as GRRM. Hence that LF, Varys, Tirion, etc - are all acting like boring idiots lately.

Lf is arrogant and sloppy in the books as well, he goes around telling people he fucked Cat, (even tho im pretty sure it was Lysa). Hes lucky Ned didn't shove ice up his bunghole

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Found it...

Just for a moment, he thought he saw a flicker of doubt in her eyes, but what she said was, “Why would Petyr lie to me?”
“Why does a bear shit in the woods?” he demanded. “Because it is his nature. Lying comes as easily as breathing to a man like Littlefinger. You ought to know that, you of all people.”
She took a step toward him, her face tight. “And what does that mean, Lannister?”
Tyrion cocked his head. “Why, every man at court has heard him tell how he took your maidenhead, my lady.”
“That is a lie!” Catelyn Stark said.

“Oh, wicked little imp,” Marillion said, shocked.
Kurleket drew his dirk, a vicious piece of black iron. “At your word, m’lady, I’ll toss his lying tongue at
your feet.” His pig eyes were wet with excitement at the prospect.
Catelyn Stark stared at Tyrion with a coldness on her face such as he had never seen. “Petyr Baelish loved me once. He was only a boy. His passion was a tragedy for all of us, but it was real, and pure, and nothing to be made mock of. He wanted my hand. That is the truth of the matter. You are truly an evil man, Lannister.”

“And you are truly a fool, Lady Stark. Littlefinger has never loved anyone but Littlefinger, and I promise you that it is not your hand that he boasts of, it’s those ripe breasts of yours, and that sweet mouth, and the heat between your legs.”

[ItachiZaku]

Stannis is still alive!

I'm 99.94% sure Stannis is still alive. There really is no proof that he isn't.

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Pretty sure its show cannon that Jon has a small dick DnD pretty much said as much as he had to some sort of "downside" considering how near perfect he is so there s no way his dick is 8 inches as that is actually a big dick.

It could be a thin dick, which negates its length.

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Yea this is an important point. Dany happened to have seen at least 100k, there is no reason to believe the entire army of the dead was travelling together. So it could easily be millions, and we just happened to run into a contingent force, and the Night King either happened to be with this 100k retinue, or he diverted from the main force when he got word of a trapped band of badasses north of the wall: and figured that deserved direct oversight, rather than staying with the main force marching to the wall.

"Can they swim?" No, but we've seen undead go into water and walk the bottom to resurface somewhere else. After Euron brings the Golden Company to either back ambush the Targe/Stark Coalition or if he uses them against Cersei cuz lol, I can see him retreat to the Iron Isles only to have the dead walk out of the water and take then all down. Assuming that don't pull some Theon bullshit.

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Cersei cant defeat them

Why can't she? The dragons don't seem to have that high of a defense. Her armies already brought one down.

[Tekkommo]

Year and a half till Jon Snow and Arya reunion, was hoping for it this last episode

[ItachiZaku]

I just can't help but think about what Jon/Aegon is going to think once he finds out Dany is his aunt. What is Daenerys going to think? Jon/Aegon is a mirror image of Ned. Both honor bound guys. Ned wasn't very fond of the idea of incest, it's one of the reasons that got him killed. So I imagine Jon wouldn't be either, Targaryen or not.

"The Stark in me says the idea of incest is disgusting, but the Targe in me says if it feels good, do it!"

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Jon and Daenerys' sex scene really was quite comical.. You know with the whole aunt and nephew thing being explained while they're going at it.

One... two... ROLL, yay, barely any sidebook, good work. Fucking bullshit.

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So 7 seasons leading into an incest relationship. Well, GoT as a universe started out great and gone into the toilet in my eyes. If I wanted to watch Oldboy, I'd watch Oldboy.

Lizzie Olson's tits do rival those of any of the GOT ladies.

[Velky]

I've started reading the books, one thing that stuck out to me from the last episode compared to the first book was a quote from Ned.

He told Bran after executing a deserter from the wall that a man who passes sentence for someone to be executed but doesn't do the execution himself no longer knows what death is.

In the last episode when Sansa/Arya are talking outside, Arya says to Sansa that she gave the orders for LF to be killed but she herself (Arya) is just the executioner.

Coincidence or does it mean something?