[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Helgrimm]

In other news... the sky is blue.

This whole plot point was made the moment she lost her last child and Jaime.

I disagree, if you're referring to the season 7 finale, my interpretation of that was that she was more sad of Jaime leaving then her being in a fragile position. Cersei clearly didn't want to sleep with Euron; the fact she's now doing things she doesn't want to do paints a different picture than Jaimes departure scene, or even after Tommen died.

[Frontenac]

Sam is being emotional and hypocritical, he told Jon Snow to return to Castle Black, not to go south to fight for Robb Stark, yet now he wants Jon Snow to start a war in the north against Daenerys just when the Night King is breathing down their necks...

It is not about who has the "right" to the iron throne, by right it belonged to Aemon Targaryen, not his brother n their off-spring, but what is best for the realm. Sam is a sworn brother of the Night's Watch..The death of Sam's father n brother has robbed him of his senses...



So much wisdom..the only Targaryen in recent memory with common sense..


Jon Snow is not the King of the Norff anymore, chose the realm before the crown, should he now choose another crown over the realm? I don't think Jon will do anything, it's not in his nature to start a struggle against Daenerys, [/snip]

And that's why Sam will talk. Jon has always put the common good above his own, but he always put himself out of the equation. Sam knows that Jon can make a difference and where he is needed. He's the one who got him elected as Lord Commander. Jon did not want it. He did not volunteered. As he did not volunteered to be crowned King in the North. Well, now Sam believes that Jon's duty for the good of the realm is to become King of the Seven Kingdoms. And that's perfectly reasonnable. He knows Jon, he knows what kind of king he can become. As for Daenerys, well... All he saw from her was that Targaryen girl who casually tells him that she killed both his father and brother the way she would tell what she had eaten for breakfast. He saw a cold-blooded tyrant who would roast you without batting an eyelash if you didn't do what she told you. That's the problem Daenerys has in the North (and Westeros). She's used to being obeyed and acclaimed. The Westerosi are not obedient slaves to be freed and who would answer "yes, Mhyssa" to all she said. When she burned the Tarlys, most people must have thought she's truly her father's daughter.

Anyway, I don't believe there will be any fight between Jon and Dany. It will probably end out as an alliance, where both will be ruling as King and Queen, in a Castille and Aragon way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I can see the NK win the battle of winterfell. Many characters die and others flee to the Iron Islands that get retaken by Yara (undead cant swim™ honk honk).

If the Long Night or a freezing cold accompanies the NK's army, then perhaps if they marched to the coast, the ocean would freeze, enabling to march straight to the Iron Islands. Who knows; maybe they can man ships too.

[IIamaKing]

So all the Night King manages to accomplish in the so-called Great War for the fate of Humanity... Is kill a child and his lesser house, send cryptic messages, and fail to capture Winterfell?

I don't see why the writers would think that it's a good idea to have Cersei as the final villain of the show, and not the Night King, whose threat was estabilished from literally the first scene ever of the show. That and it would be very anticlimactic. The Night King spent 8.000 years plotting his invasion and raising his armies, only to fail to go past Winterfell, which is in the far north of the realm? What a joke.

I will be happy to be mistaken. But frankly I've no reason to think that is the case. Been fairly easy to call the progression from s6 on.

Frankly I dont think the Gold Company ever even sees the AoD or the NK. I will be entirely shocked if the AoD even makes it to the Twins.

- - - Updated - - -

If Daenerys even touches a hair from Jamie I'll be pissed. Hopefully Jon tells her ASAP that she's his aunt, not to drag this shit too much.

From the trailer looks like the battle is about to start. So Ep. 3 will be some sort of initial battle, 4 the aftermath, 5 final battle, 6, aftermath.

And when do they deal with Cersei? Who isnt leaving Kings Landing.

- - - Updated - - -

A season that from its debuts seeks to convey the idea that the Night King is the ultimate threat to humanity, and thus shouldn't abruptly end this plotline when 2/3 episodes are still left. Let alone the fact that the Night King's motivations for waging a genocidal war against humanity have yet to be revealed.

NK Bad, wants to kill. Thats his motivation. Mark my words.

Mind you, I dont WANT it to resolve the way I am describing, but Im as sure as I get that it will very closely resolve this way.

- - - Updated - - -

Cersei has already been setup as the longterm threat beyond the NK. And you’ll have the Dany/Aegon drama in addition. Cramming all of the resolutions required into one episode would be a fucking travesty. Next episode, more setup. Next 2, night king’s defeat. Final 2, game of thrones is decided.

Yup, I could even see the next 2 eps resolving the NK threat.

- - - Updated - - -

Why hype an enemy up for 8 seasons and then let him die in the first battle?

Becasue the writers ran out of time.

- - - Updated - - -

If the Long Night or a freezing cold accompanies the NK's army, then perhaps if they marched to the coast, the ocean would freeze, enabling to march straight to the Iron Islands. Who knows; maybe they can man ships too.

Well, it does seems as though they CAN travel underwater. The whole "dead cant swim" notion isnt really a comforting blanket IMO.

[Varodoc]

The trailers lead me to believe that the Night King will win at Winterfell. They showed Varys and the others being scared, Arya being terrified and running away from someone in the crypt, the Starks seeing their tombs in the crypt while they are slowly ambushed by what might be the Night King... Also in the Aftermath teaser they showed a figure, most likely the Night King, standing amigst the desolation of Winterfell. All these ominous scenes might be a red herring. But since I am optmistic, I'm going to predict that the Night King wins the Battle of Winterfell and prepares his march south, while Jon, Daenerys, and the survivors flee to the south. Episodes 4-5-6 could be the living making their last stand against the Night King in the south, and before the final battle (maybe episode 4 or first half of episode 5) they could deal with Cersei.

[IIamaKing]

The trailers lead me to believe that the Night King will win at Winterfell. They showed Varys and the others being scared, Arya being terrified and running away from someone in the crypt, the Starks seeing their tombs in the crypt while they are slowly ambushed by what might be the Night King... Also in the Aftermath teaser they showed a figure, most likely the Night King, standing amigst the desolation of Winterfell. All these ominous scenes might be a red herring. But since I am optmistic, I'm going to predict that the Night King wins the Battle of Winterfell and prepares his march south, while Jon, Daenerys, and the survivors flee to the south. Episodes 4-5-6 could be the living making their last stand against the Night King in the south, and before the final battle (maybe episode 4 or first half of episode 5) they could deal with Cersei.

Id chalk up anything that portends to how things play out as misdirection, but thats just me. Also, They could very well get shit on AT Winterfell, calling a small retreat to discuss the "hail mary" they need to do to win, then a "Suicide" mission to kill the NK which wraps up that. AoD doesnt leave the north though.

[Very Tired]

So what exactly is going on with the Crown's finances? They said they were going to use the gold they took from Lady Olenna to pay back the massive debt they owed to the Iron Bank and then take out another loan to hire the Golden Company. But it seemed like the gold they took from Lady Olenna was destroyed or stolen back when Daenerys and dothraki attacked, yet they still managed to hire the Golden Company? Did they just hire them all at a reduced rate since there were no elephants?

[Isilrien]

So what exactly is going on with the Crown's finances? They said they were going to use the gold they took from Lady Olenna to pay back the massive debt they owed to the Iron Bank and then take out another loan to hire the Golden Company. But it seemed like the gold they took from Lady Olenna was destroyed or stolen back when Daenerys and dothraki attacked, yet they still managed to hire the Golden Company? Did they just hire them all at a reduced rate since there were no elephants?

Randall Tarly and Jaime talk about the gold. Tarly says it's all safely behind the gates at King's Landing in episode 4 of last season. So it wasn't destroyed or stolen back by Danaerys and company. Edit to add: all (or most of) the food was destroyed, however. They were still trying to get the grain over the river when they were attacked.

[eschatological]

I too think it would be a grievous misstep to have Cersei outlive the NK.

As I see it, this is probably how it unfolds:

1. NK wins at Winterfell.
2. Survivors of the North fall back to the Iron Islands, where they defeat some last semblence of Euron trying to win back the islands from Yara.
3. Cersei is about to be beseiged after the NK runs rampant through the Riverlands. The Eyrie is relatively safe. She sends out ravens begging for help.
4. Jon is too good a person/Dany wants her throne/Tyrion and Jaime urge action, they come up thru Highgarden (maybe we join up with some Dornishmen?)
5. Jaime and Tyrion are sent to negotiate Cersei's surrender so they can adequately defend the city without worrying about her bullshit.
6. Cersei says, "I'm pregnant, it's yours, Jaime, I love you, join me, betray them!" Jaime looks at her funny.
7. Tyrion looks away because he knows what comes next.
8. Jaime moves in as if to kiss Cersei. He instead stabs her in the belly (or maybe intimates that he's gonna kill her), recognizing her madness and how she'd get everyone killed for some baby who she already values more than the rest of the kingdom.
9. As she's dying (or doomed to die), Cersei cries: "But the witch! She said my younger brother would kill me!"
10. Tyrion, ever the smartass, points out Jaime, while her twin, was born after her.
11. Jaime looks at her sad, and decides to end it quickly because he loves her too, saying......."The things I do for love."
FIN episode 5.

Episode 6: deal with the NK.

- - - Updated - - -

As an aside, the "political storyline" in episode 6 will be between Jon/Sam/Sansa and Dany and her people, if she has any left by that point.

[Linkedblade]

Where are you getting that they're both bastards? Because Jon grew up as a bastard?

Gendry is a bastard Baratheon. He's literally the piece that gets Ned to realize that Cersei's kids aren't Robert's

[Isilrien]

Gendry is a bastard Baratheon. He's literally the piece that gets Ned to realize that Cersei's kids aren't Robert's

Yeah, but this doesn't answer my question. Are you saying that Jon will continue to have something in common with Gendry because they both grew up as bastards?

[eschatological]

Yeah, but this doesn't answer my question. Are you saying that Jon will continue to have something in common with Gendry because they both grew up as bastards?

I think the point is more that the truth doesn't matter as much as the fact that he was raised a bastard, he was scorned as a bastard, he can sympathize with a bastard, not that Jon is literally a bastard, which we now know to be false.

It's nature vs. nurture. Jon was nurtured as a bastard, which is probably more important to who he is as a person than the "nature"/fact of himself, which is that he's royalty. Tyrion says in s1e1 to Jon "Always know what you are, bastard." Same still applies.

[RobertoCarlos]

The trailers lead me to believe that the Night King will win at Winterfell. They showed Varys and the others being scared, Arya being terrified and running away from someone in the crypt, the Starks seeing their tombs in the crypt while they are slowly ambushed by what might be the Night King... Also in the Aftermath teaser they showed a figure, most likely the Night King, standing amigst the desolation of Winterfell. All these ominous scenes might be a red herring. But since I am optmistic, I'm going to predict that the Night King wins the Battle of Winterfell and prepares his march south, while Jon, Daenerys, and the survivors flee to the south. Episodes 4-5-6 could be the living making their last stand against the Night King in the south, and before the final battle (maybe episode 4 or first half of episode 5) they could deal with Cersei.

Seems likely everyones gonna retreat back to the land of the greyjoys. Yara and Theon are heading there now to reclaim it while euron is busy plowing the queen and they even mentioned people might need to retreat there. So yeah. I dont think that was just fluff

I imagine the character death count for the winterfell battle is gonna top anything GoT has done

[The Oblivion]

i personally hope the NK is done by episode 3-4 and the fight for the iron throne is how the series ends. we will see.

[Asgard170]

Regarding the motivation iof the Night King: We saw how he was created: by the children of the forest, who were, as we know, desperate because they were killed off by the first men. So maybe they created a weapon with a sole purpose: destroying humans.

Yes, i know the undead killed the last children in season 6. This would be some kind of "Skynet" or "Ultron" failure.

[Varodoc]

Seems likely everyones gonna retreat back to the land of the greyjoys. Yara and Theon are heading there now to reclaim it while euron is busy plowing the queen and they even mentioned people might need to retreat there. So yeah. I dont think that was just fluff

I imagine the character death count for the winterfell battle is gonna top anything GoT has done

Even the Greyjoy islands won't keep them safe for long against the Night King (he has his own dragon). Also, looking at the mastery that the Night King has over winter in general, I could see him freezing the sea and allow his forces to march on the islands. The Night King has shown to possess supernatural powers of astonishing scope.

Regarding the motivation iof the Night King: We saw how he was created: by the children of the forest, who were, as we know, desperate because they were killed off by the first men. So maybe they created a weapon with a sole purpose: destroying humans.

Yes, his backstory explains how the Night King came to be, but more has been hinted. The Night King's actor mentioned that the Night King has a target, who is that target? Also the Night King ultimately turned against the Children of the Forest. Why is that? We don't know, we can only speculate until the writers answer those questions. The Night King is a more complex character than what he might look like, and I don't believe that he is evil for the sake of being evil or because he is mind-controlled by some superior deity who hates humanity.

[Isilrien]

I think the point is more that the truth doesn't matter as much as the fact that he was raised a bastard, he was scorned as a bastard, he can sympathize with a bastard, not that Jon is literally a bastard, which we now know to be false.

It's nature vs. nurture. Jon was nurtured as a bastard, which is probably more important to who he is as a person than the "nature"/fact of himself, which is that he's royalty. Tyrion says in s1e1 to Jon "Always know what you are, bastard." Same still applies.

So....yes. Thanks :-)

[lonely zergling]

Anyone else noticed how weird Tyrion acted in Winterfell? When he said the Lannister army is comming he looked /sounded very weird also Bran looked at him very suspicious.

Leaks confirmed rip. Tyrion the betrayer dwarf.

Are leaks allowed here in this thread btw ?

[Isilrien]

Anyone else noticed how weird Tyrion acted in Winterfell? When he said the Lannister army is comming he looked /sounded very weird also Bran looked at him very suspicious.

Leaks confirmed rip. Tyrion the betrayer dwarf.

Are leaks allowed here in this thread btw ?

The title of the thread says ***SPOILER Discussion*** so you're free to share spoilers here :-)

[Logwyn]

They don't have to do it though. By default they just create these pointless squabbles that get resolved quickly when they could just actually tell the story of what's happening. This episode is a great example, too much soap opera stuff and not enough "castle preparing for war".

You'd rather see people sitting around tables counting out provisions, numbers of troops, weapons, and other quartermaster duties? People writing down numbers in a book isn't fun TV.

- - - Updated - - -

If the Long Night or a freezing cold accompanies the NK's army, then perhaps if they marched to the coast, the ocean would freeze, enabling to march straight to the Iron Islands. Who knows; maybe they can man ships too.

This reason is why I always thought that the Night King takes his army to the sea. NK and army way around the wall was a freezing sea they could just walk around......maybe that was the plan along but having a dragon just made it easier.