[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Beazy]

Was it? If that's the case, fuck 'em. There's no reason to rush this unless you're being asked to.

But I'm pretty sure they're not the ones setting the budget and such, which effectively limits how many episodes you can shoot.

Yeah, HBO wanted 10, 10 episode seasons.

It all just sucks. . Because Episode 3 and 5 were amazing from a visual standpoint. Burning the city with a dragon was the coolest thing I've seen on TV.

[Tekkommo]

Yeah, HBO wanted 10, 10 episode seasons.

Yup, 10 seasons with 10 episodes each (just clarifying the 10 seasons, you may have meant that).

D&D initially wanted 7 seasons, but HBO managed to get them to do 8, with fewer episodes each season.

[Beazy]

Yup, 10 seasons with 10 episodes each (just clarifying the 10 seasons, you may have meant that).

Yes, thats what I meant.

[crakerjack]

But that is an irrational "snap" into madness. Whcih, as I said earlier, is a narrative choice, but a weak one in this case. It is 1) unjustified by her previous sympathies with these very kind of folk, and 2) makes her a cartoonish villain with no nuance, no justification, no remorse for when someone, likely Jon, inevitably has to kill her and remove her from power.

Uh no, these aren't the same type of folk. Every city in Essos wanted to be saved by her due to their huge population of people being treated unfairly. Can you tell me how many people ran outside of kings landing to greet Dany? There were certainly people outside, but they were flocking into the city, not out. How do you think that toys with Dany's already fragile mind? Does she see these people as her future citizens or does she see them as cerceis pawns?

Also you're forgetting that they exaggerated the whole episode by changing up the perspective. If we were riding on drogon with Dany watching her burn the streets, it might have just looked like a typical siege, maybe a little extreme, but a siege nonetheless. What if we went back and shot every scene from the perspective of the slave owners in Meereen? Just what side would you have seen of her as people are screaming, kids/wives are crying. Masked unsullied are bashing in doors, grabbing people outside of their homes and without any trial, no evidence, she sentenced them all the same. Tears running down their cheeks as the unsullied drive nails into their hands/feet.

Nothing about her was irrational. Everyone who wasn't an over the top Dany fan saw this coming a million miles away. Her #1 desire was to be a ruler. She didn't become a ruler because she wanted to save people. She became a ruler because she believed it was her rightful claim. The whole time she has been this type of person, just she had Missandei and Jorah to curb her more extreme thoughts. It's almost like you overlooked every scene where she becomes vile and talks about burning people alive or taking the red keep with fire and blood. "Nah she's not really that insane, she's just mad and venting."

[RobertoCarlos]

Only character I care about/am worried about going into the final is drogon. He did nothing wrong. He was just following his masters orders

Hes a good boi

[Celista]

Only character I care about/am worried about going into the final is drogon. He did nothing wrong. He was just following his masters orders

Hes a good boi

If that dragon could talk, you know he'd be a dick.

[RobertoCarlos]

If that dragon could talk, you know he'd be a dick.

He'd basically be the Rock.

Big dumb alpha.

[draynay]

Only character I care about/am worried about going into the final is drogon. He did nothing wrong. He was just following his masters orders

Hes a good boi

He's a creeper.

[RobertoCarlos]

He's a creeper.

Hes more protective of his mother than Norman Bates. Its admirable

[IIamaKing]

If that dragon could talk, you know he'd be a dick.

Spoiled fucking rotten, other 2 siblings got grounded and he got to roam free the whole time. Clearly ma'mas favorite. Yeh, he'd be a dick for sure.

[GreenJesus]

Ashes often look like snow. And the more relevant point is, that's the throne room in the Red Keep, and it's not just destroyed and open to the air, it's empty. The only voices she hears in this vision are those of the dead.

- - - Updated - - -



Nobody was saying she did even worse things earlier in the show.

Foreshadowing is about showing a hint of a future possibility. You have her say "I'll burn your city to the ground" in Season 2, and in Season 8, she . . . burns a city to the ground. That's how it works.

That is a vision of what would have happened if the Night King won... It was clearly ice and snow not ashes.

[Endus]

ROFL, you're trying to paint a person who MURDERED HER HUSBAND AND UNBORN CHILD as being an innocent or "downtrodden". Miss us with that disingenous bullshit, you're done :-P

Given that the "husband" in question was the marauding, pillaging, raping warband leader who'd decimated and enslaved her people, you'd think you'd see the point, but I guess not. The Dothraki were savages, in case you've forgotten, who had no respect for anyone not Dothraki.

Yes, from per point of view, she was wronged. But you're not considering anyone else's point of view, particularly not the points of view of her victims.

[RobertoCarlos]

Given that the "husband" in question was the marauding, pillaging, raping warband leader who'd decimated and enslaved her people, you'd think you'd see the point, but I guess not. The Dothraki were savages, in case you've forgotten, who had no respect for anyone not Dothraki.

Yes, from per point of view, she was wronged. But you're not considering anyone else's point of view, particularly not the points of view of her victims.

Dany also made the dothraki not rape and steal which made her unpopular among a lot of them that even left when khal drogo died

[Skulltaker]

Idk do you think D&D are good writers?

One of them wrote X-Men Origins: Wolverine. If I had known that prior to season 5 I'd have stopped watching and waited for the books to never be released.

If that dragon could talk, you know he'd be a dick.

"Yeah, get roasted boiiiiiis!" "LOL dat dude's on fire! YEET!"

Honestly, I'd watch that in small 25 second videos.

Dany also made the dothraki not rape and steal which made her unpopular among a lot of them that even left when khal drogo died

But she still agreed to them whipping, murdering, burning, and she ordered them to steal once she realized the Masters of Quarth tried to rob her. Being wronged doesn't absolve you from commiting crimes.

[enigma77]

If that dragon could talk, you know he'd be a dick.

What makes you say that?

Seems to be he's always been the most affectionate of the 3. He's a momma's boy.



Come to think of it do we actually know for a fact that the 3 dragons are all male?

[Independent voter]

I bet after Dany is killed, Jon makes peach with Drogan and Drogan flies off to another continent to look for more of his kind.

[Raetary]

Come to think of it do we actually know for a fact that the 3 dragons are all male?

No.
It's unknown how their biology works.

Master Aemon believed they can change their sex at need.
“but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame”

Others not so much.
The dragons we "know" are female are only referred to as such because they were seen laying eggs.

[eschatological]

Burning to death is a sadistically cruel means of execution. Beheading is comparatively humane.

Also, she isn't implementing the mandated penalty for a crime according to a set code of laws. She kills people by her own whims, because she says so, and she's the one with the dragon. That's as deep as it goes; there is no "law", no "code".

IDK, maybe if it was burning at the stake it would be unusual and tortorous, like what Melisandre did to Shireen. But Drogon roasting someone seems pretty quick, Varys didn't even make a sound.

As for your latter point.......she's a landed lord in her own right, and in Slaver's Bay, I'd say she was falling right in line with how the slavemasters treated the slaves/Unsullied, etc.

There is a point to her burning the Tarlys when normally such a highborn lord would be held ransom, but the Targs before her weren't unknown to burn people who didn't bend the knee.

[Nebron]

Uh no, these aren't the same type of folk. Every city in Essos wanted to be saved by her due to their huge population of people being treated unfairly. Can you tell me how many people ran outside of kings landing to greet Dany? There were certainly people outside, but they were flocking into the city, not out. How do you think that toys with Dany's already fragile mind? Does she see these people as her future citizens or does she see them as cerceis pawns?

Also you're forgetting that they exaggerated the whole episode by changing up the perspective. If we were riding on drogon with Dany watching her burn the streets, it might have just looked like a typical siege, maybe a little extreme, but a siege nonetheless. What if we went back and shot every scene from the perspective of the slave owners in Meereen? Just what side would you have seen of her as people are screaming, kids/wives are crying. Masked unsullied are bashing in doors, grabbing people outside of their homes and without any trial, no evidence, she sentenced them all the same. Tears running down their cheeks as the unsullied drive nails into their hands/feet.

Nothing about her was irrational. Everyone who wasn't an over the top Dany fan saw this coming a million miles away. Her #1 desire was to be a ruler. She didn't become a ruler because she wanted to save people. She became a ruler because she believed it was her rightful claim. The whole time she has been this type of person, just she had Missandei and Jorah to curb her more extreme thoughts. It's almost like you overlooked every scene where she becomes vile and talks about burning people alive or taking the red keep with fire and blood. "Nah she's not really that insane, she's just mad and venting."

Personally, I don't find her destiny being told the wrong way. It's simply had no proper build up. You definitely can see her turning into a mad queen. But honestly, it started at the feast in episode 4, when she realizes she's alone. She loses her dragon and best friend in a cliche way. And then, she goes full mad-mode.

I agree, there are a lot of messages of what she's about to become. But her instant switch in episode 5 to insane character feels unjustifable. It would work much better, if we had more and more of her mad side build up in season 7. Season 8, that focused entirely on the White Walkers threat. And then, season 9 that would conclude the series.

She's lands in Westeros in season 7, a foreign place for her. She doesn't feel like she's at home, of which she always dreamt. And from this llace, they could go with a proper build up. Then we would have the fight with White Walkers. She could lose her most loyal advisers and so her true nature would become more clear, without good advices and Missandei, that could potentialy die in season 8.
And then, we had entire season 9 to push her even further. She could see her remaining advisers as a potential threat and Jon Snow as her enemy. People don't accept her, but they also fear her, so they plot against Dany.

That would definitely give more justice to her character, and I believe that's what D&D were aiming for.

[Endus]

Dany also made the dothraki not rape and steal which made her unpopular among a lot of them that even left when khal drogo died

Which wasn't relevant to the point in time I was talking about, when the Dothraki WERE murdering, raping savages.

The point was, that witch-woman was fighting back against her oppressors, using whatever tools she had at hand. She did exactly what Dany would have done, in her place. Dany's response was personal vengeance, not justice.

IDK, maybe if it was burning at the stake it would be unusual and tortorous, like what Melisandre did to Shireen. But Drogon roasting someone seems pretty quick, Varys didn't even make a sound.

I don't think you can really rely on how much we focus on the agony of the death as a marker; that has more to do with the filming than anything.

We've seen plenty of people screaming and on fire after Drogon's blasted them. And it really isn't about whether it's "quick enough"; it's still brutal.

As for your latter point.......she's a landed lord in her own right, and in Slaver's Bay, I'd say she was falling right in line with how the slavemasters treated the slaves/Unsullied, etc.

Is she, though? What lands are hers? She's freed a few cities in Essos, and they show fealty to her, but they're not her lands, and she's not ruling them. She doesn't own a scrap of land in Westeros (at least, didn't. She arguably owns the ashes of King's Landing, by conquest, now.)

And there's only a few people in Westeros who even recognize her claim to the throne, and of those number, even before King's Landing, the total was like 2 of them who actually thought she deserved it. Everyone else was raising questions and wondering if Jon would be a better Targaryen.

As for the general statement on how she's not treating people any worse than they would have if things were reversed; I kind of expect my heroic figures to actually be better than the villains of the piece, not consistently stoop to the same tactics and methods.

There is a point to her burning the Tarlys when normally such a highborn lord would be held ransom, but the Targs before her weren't unknown to burn people who didn't bend the knee.

I'm super not arguing that this is out of character for a Targaryen. I think she's Aegon the Conqueror's perfect heir. A man she idolizes.

Which is sort of the point, eh?

The Tarlys should be an obvious marker. They didn't deny her anything. They simply remained loyal to their rightful Queen, rather than turning traitor. That's it. That's their "crime". They're not resisting her any longer, just refusing to switch sides and betray their own Queen.

Slap them in chains and barter them back, or hold them until you've taken Cersei out and see if they change their minds, fine. Torching them? The only excuse for that is either petty vindictiveness, or convenience, and neither's an acceptable reason.