[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Ragedaug]

Eh, small children do bad things to other small children, especially when they're different. Doesn't make her insane. And after her visit to the witch, it should be no surprise she acted the way she did. I don't think she's insane at all.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree on that point. I don't think either of us will convince the other otherwise

[Sooba]

I love how Martin has managed to make Jaime this actual likable character despite the fact that in the very first episode he throws Bran out a window for witnessing him fucking his sister. It's a real study in humanity that in spite of that horrific dispicable act, many people grow to like him anyway.

Jaime's a knight and despite being relatively intelligent is somewhat limited in his diplomacy. Killing folks to achieve ends is what he does. Cersei was also his berserk button, and Bran mistakenly pushed it. Not an excusable act of course. Completely wrong. But understandable in light of those two facts. That's why I think he offs himself in the end. He'll kill the one thing he cared about, look back on his murders, and come to believe himself a monster.

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Spoiler alert... Jon's not dead

You're months behind. :P

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Jamie's one of the three heads, he won't die

That means Cersei is too, making too many heads of the dragon. Your move.

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What makes you think Jaime is one of the heads?

Aerys's interest in Joanna, his offhand comment to Tywin about wanting to reinstate Prima Nocta, and the mention of him "taking too many liberties" during the bedding.

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How do they have more in common with dragons? Their hair is the gold-blonde of a Lannister, not the platinum-blonde of a Targaryen.

Predeliction to incest is a markedly Targaryen trait, as is paranoid insanity.

Note: I'm posting what he (Ragedaug) is basing his opinion on. I don't subscribe to them fully, but the suspicion is there.

[Tommy T]

Disappointed Jaime and Tyrion didn't have the speech about Tysha.

Underwhelming episode. Perhaps it was because I knew what was coming.

[Deleted]

As a book reader, this season - and this finale - is all about frustation after frustration. It's like D&D are writing their own version of the story.

Ok, it's a tv show and they need to manage their time, but leaving out crucial scenes, like the Jaime/Tyrion dialoge that misleads Tyrion to hate his brother?

And all these scenes derived from the lack of actors..."well we can't hire anymore people so let's have the Hound and Brienne meet and fight." It's not even that, it's Brienne being fully aware of Arya's existance and how they're gonna have that impact the story latter on.

There's also a bit of a plothole in there. Sansa's reveal of her true identity to the Vale's nobles preceeds the arrival of Arya, according to the episode's time frame. So...then what? The guard announces the death of her aunt, she laughs her ass off, turns and leave because Sansa's identify magically remains secret from the rest of the people?

Oh and Jojen's death. What are they gonna say? "We thought it was a good time to send him off" again, like they did with Pyp and Grenn? No you didn't, you just have a constraint derived from adapting a story like ASoIaF to TV format, lack of actors.

About the Jaime/Tyrion dialogue, yeah I would have prefered them to stay true to the books. Although Tyrion hating on Jaime pissed me off on the books, so at the end I think I'm glad the went with a different way.

And come on, Brienne history was horrible, they have actually improved it here by making it shorter and adding a fight with The Hound. Also, I think it's better than The Hound dying slowly until he can't move anymore. They should have pointed out that he was weakened, or Brienne wouldn't have got a chance, but well, in the series she seems to be a better fighter than in the books (first Jaime, now The Hound). The Hound and Arya moved me here more than in the books. Points for the actors.

PD: I would expect Sansa reveal to be confined to the three nobles that were there. I don't think they want King's Landing to know, so they certainly didn't run around telling all the guards that Sansa was there. Although yeah, they should have spend 2 minutes saying that The Hound won't get any reward and that Arya didn't wanted to stay there in the first place.

[Grimbold21]

Espada:

J/T - It's not just a matter of fan preference. That moment is crucial in the brother's relationship and how Tyrion's caracter develops from there. Removing that particular conversation is taking away an important part of Tyrion's development.

Brienne/Hound: Her story being horrible is matter of taste, but, like i said, having Brienne meet and becoming aware of who Arya really is an entirely new change that D&D introduced that will surely impact how they direct the story from there.
So when the show reaches the Brienne cliffhanger, what's gonna happen? They're gonna have her say "i know Arya is alive!"? Everyone thinks her dead.

On the Sansa matter, i think you're forgetting this is aSoIaF, secrets are revealed all the time.

[Velshin]

About the Jaime/Tyrion dialogue, yeah I would have prefered them to stay true to the books. Although Tyrion hating on Jaime pissed me off on the books, so at the end I think I'm glad the went with a different way.

And come on, Brienne history was horrible, they have actually improved it here by making it shorter and adding a fight with The Hound. Also, I think it's better than The Hound dying slowly until he can't move anymore. They should have pointed out that he was weakened, or Brienne wouldn't have got a chance, but well, in the series she seems to be a better fighter than in the books (first Jaime, now The Hound). The Hound and Arya moved me here more than in the books. Points for the actors.

PD: I would expect Sansa reveal to be confined to the three nobles that were there. I don't think they want King's Landing to know, so they certainly didn't run around telling all the guards that Sansa was there. Although yeah, they should have spend 2 minutes saying that The Hound won't get any reward and that Arya didn't wanted to stay there in the first place.

They made it clear that the hound was weakned in previous episodes when Arya said you are moving slower than usual or something like that.

[Tziva]

Cersie is a loon. No two ways about it. From what she did to Tyrion as a baby to her paranoia following her adolescent visit to the witch. She normally keeps her crazy in check, but it rears it ugly head from time to time.

She's a sociopath, but she's not really crazy in any of the traditional senses. She has a pretty firm grip on reality and has occasional bouts of genuine awareness and introspection. I think some of what is presented as her being unhinged is just her trying to be manipulative (except she's not as clever as she thinks she is, and she's bad at it, and it just makes her look like paranoid or hysterical).

I'm not saying she is the picture of mental health -- she's definitely fucked up -- but I don't think "batshit crazy" is applicable.

Yet, anyway. Yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it progressed.

[Velshin]

She's a sociopath, but she's not really crazy in any of the traditional senses. She has a pretty firm grip on reality and has occasional bouts of genuine awareness and introspection. I think some of what is presented as her being unhinged is just her trying to be manipulative (except she's not as clever as she thinks she is, and she's bad at it, and it just makes her look like paranoid or hysterical).

I'm not saying she is the picture of mental health -- she's definitely fucked up -- but I don't think "batshit crazy" is applicable.

Yet, anyway. Yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it progressed.

I think Cersei is what Joffrey would be if he growed up. The difference between Cersei and Joffrey is that she knows when to keep her craziness in check while Joffrey doesn't care.

[Sesto]

I hope they don't cut out Septa Lemore. If I don't get to see her Lemores I will be very disappointed.

In fact, I think I'm actually excited for Tyrion's storyline the most. I know Grif/Young Grif get a lot of hate for making the series even more convoluted, but I thought it was one of the best parts of aDwD. Also looking forward to Dorne.

[Tommy T]

For me, Dorne was boring as hell. If the Martell actors are as good as Oberyn though...

Looks like new content for Sansa / Bran next season. No chance Winds of Winter will be released before then. Disappointing.

[Grimbold21]

One thing they added that i thought was cool was Ygritte's funeral. I don't have memory if that exists or not in the books, but i thought it was a nice touch.

Damn that song..... man tears

[Deleted]

They made it clear that the hound was weakned in previous episodes when Arya said you are moving slower than usual or something like that.

And some people will remember, specially the book people since we know that there he got ditched by Arya because of that wound... But I don't think most series people will remember that phrase several weeks after, specially since you couldn't tell looking that he was quite weak looking at the actor. If they would have mentioned in this episody instead of the one two weeks ago, it would have been better for the character. Instead of he appearing some seconds behind Arya because he was... I don't remember? He could have come later because he was tired and couldn't keep the rhytm. Ah, well.

[ringpriest]

There's nothing anyone has said to prove who's going to be the 2nd or 3rd head. All we have is what Martin has people saying, then we make our best guess based on what we believe to hold more water. Are Griff (aka Aegon) and Jon, Rhaegar's sons? I think there's very few who don't think Jon is, however I believe the vote is still out on Griff/Aegon. Then there's the question of who's the 3rd, if not Griff, and the fact that Jon, Jamie, and Tyrion (regardless of who, if any, end up being Targ) are all bastards and what role that plays on their ability to claim to the family name.

I'm on board with the idea that Tyrion could be Aerys' son (via the rape of Joanna). There's plenty of indirect support: Aerys' lust for Joanna, Tywin's later falling out with the Targaryen's, Tywin's insistence that Tyrion isn't his son, Tyrion's love for fire as a small child, his fascination with books on dragons. None of it confirms anything, of course, but if it does turn out that way, "it was there all along" is going to be easy to point out.

As for Young Griff/Aegon, I think he's the 'false dragon' from Dany's prophecy - he may have Targaryen blood, but he's not her brother, rather coming from the line of Blackfyre pretenders and connected with Illyrio and Varys. And btw, as long as I've wandered down this road... what color are Varys' eyes and hair?

[JP1o]

For me, Dorne was boring as hell. If the Martell actors are as good as Oberyn though...

Here's hoping the Sand Snakes and Quentyn Martell are portrayed well. Quentyn's story should be good if done properly to the books, will be nice to see the other 2 dragons in action as apose to Drogon.

[Sesto]

Here's hoping that Arianne's actor, ehm, portrays her character well also.

[Ragedaug]

You're months behind. :P

yeah, I know, the "spoiler" was tongue in cheek, but you still have so many "Jon is dead" folks. I mean, that's always a possibility, but the bottom line is Martin never said it. Getting stabbed does not always mean being dead (reminding the other folks, not you)

That means Cersei is too, making too many heads of the dragon. Your move.

I'm hoping Cersie dies a long slow painful death =) thus being dead, won't be one of the dragon heads.

[Raleina]

Of all crack-pot theories that might be true is that Tyrion (eyes and other features ) might be a Targ bastard,not Jaime.

Cersei and Jaime are certainly Tywins.

Dany,Jon and Tyrion - if we assume GRRM is that predicable - are the three heads.

uhm then what about Aegon Elia martells son that is actually still alive and kicking because he was saved by varys....

[Sesto]

uhm then what about Aegon Elia martells son that is actually still alive and kicking because he was saved by varys....

He's the Mummer's Dragon, yo.

[eschatological]

So when the show reaches the Brienne cliffhanger, what's gonna happen? They're gonna have her say "i know Arya is alive!"? Everyone thinks her dead.

Well, isn't that the implication in the books, as well? Pod and Brienne are moments from being hanged by LS's men, and then she yells out one final thing and aFfC ends...next book, we see Jaime disappear, rumored to have gone with someone who resembled Brienne, which means she's probably alive. So then, what could that one word or phrase be?

Could she have said something about Sansa? She hasn't seen hide nor hair of Sansa, she's completely disappeared in the books. But she meets Hot Pie in the books (just like in the series) and learns Arya is alive....could that be what she says? It seems likely that it is, and that LS would grant her a reprieve to go look for Arya Stark.

[Sesto]

Well, isn't that the implication in the books, as well? Pod and Brienne are moments from being hanged by LS's men, and then she yells out one final thing and aFfC ends...next book, we see Jaime disappear, rumored to have gone with someone who resembled Brienne, which means she's probably alive. So then, what could that one word or phrase be?

Could she have said something about Sansa? She hasn't seen hide nor hair of Sansa, she's completely disappeared in the books. But she meets Hot Pie in the books (just like in the series) and learns Arya is alive....could that be what she says? It seems likely that it is, and that LS would grant her a reprieve to go look for Arya Stark.

She said "sword". It's confirmed by GRRM.

The reasoning being that she was given the option of the "noose" or the "sword" (aka pledge to help them kill Jaime). She chose the sword.