[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Gatsbybutters]

Everyone saying how close the boat was yada yada, but after the night's king gets the reaction he wanted from Snow, the boat just slowly moves away from shore. No one's paddling, it's like the king just nudged them on their way and was like "hey you guys go tell your friends we're all gonna be one big happy family k thx see you soon".

Am I the only one who wants to see the night's queen on the iron throne and westeros covered in snow?

[Sindile]

I really hope episode ten plays out with "For the Watch" happening at the start of the episode and it ends with Melisandre resurrecting him and the final scene is Jon opening his eyes. Would just be bad ass imo.

[Sooba]

It suits the Faith Militant to have Tommen on the Throne though, what are the other options? Stannis and the Red God? Balon and the Drowned God?

They might be fanatics, but they aren't stupid, having someone they can control, even if they are an abomination, is far better than having another religion as the state religion.

Religious fanatics rarely have that sort of foresight. And Balon doesn't have an Other's chance in Valyria of ascending the throne. As far as they're concerned they'd go for a theocracy anyway.

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I really hope episode ten plays out with "For the Watch" happening at the start of the episode and it ends with Melisandre resurrecting him and the final scene is Jon opening his eyes. Would just be bad ass imo.

If the book is anything to go by, you'll get the first and not the second. This season at least.

[Damajin]

Everyone saying how close the boat was yada yada, but after the night's king gets the reaction he wanted from Snow, the boat just slowly moves away from shore. No one's paddling, it's like the king just nudged them on their way and was like "hey you guys go tell your friends we're all gonna be one big happy family k thx see you soon".

Am I the only one who wants to see the night's queen on the iron throne and westeros covered in snow?

I'd actually like to for once see a show and/or book series end with the total annihilation of everyone fighting the Big Bad, it's become far too formulaic for there to be a saving grace that leaves a shattered but triumphant world after the ultimate evil is defeated and I think of all the series out there GoT is the one that could actually get away with having the world fall to an all consuming Winter.

[Deleted]

In my opinion the best episode yet. Completely overtaking the books, and I find I don't mind in the least.

When the Night's King has his arm outstretched and raising the dead, he is clearly showing his power, but the camera work and Jon's face as he looked on in horror made me think this wasn't just a show of power. This was a glimpse of the end. I believe the White Walkers WILL get past the wall and sweep down into Westeros, killing and raising the dead as they go. Only dragonfire, dragonglass, or Valyrian steel will stop them.

It's not really overtaking the books at this point. The whole event at Hardhome takes place in the books but it happens entirely 'off-screen'. Only Danys story is overtaking the books at the moment.

Initial thoughts:

1) Damn, Peter Dinklage can make even a Dany scene awesome.

2) Where'd the wildlings get all that Army issue Arctic camo?

3) I mean, the fight scene was good. But I never think much of "epic battle scenes." I don't care much for Blackwater as an episode, either, and the fight at Castle Black only resonated (to me) for the subtext between Jon and Ygritte. If I wanted epic battle scenes, I'd watch an action movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. IMO (and this is very, very subjective) the whole series is based on its drama and intrigue, not on its action. I actually almost kind of nodded off during the scene, because I knew what was going to happen - mostly everyone was going to be slaughtered, Jon was going to survive and find out Longclaw (and Valyrian steel) work against Walkers, and they're going to escape. The story elements of the battle were very straightforward, and predictable.

As an aside, I don't think you need dragonflame to forge Valyrian steel. I think you *do* need spellslingers from Asshai though, iirc. And Euron (and Qaithe) are the only ones with those connections, in the books.

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Edit: IE, you knew wildling woman lady was going to die as soon as she ushers her two girls onto the boat and stays to fight. That's like, the height of storytelling tropes right there.

Heh I was wondering the same thing about the wildling outfits.

About your third point, I disagree. Even though they removed some of the tactical stuff (Tyrions chain) from the battle, it was still a big event in the story. The moment the burning arrow comes flying and the green fire is ignited.... damn, that gives me chills everytime. And the explosion.... W.O.W. The episode at the Wall also may not be amazing storywise, but come on, you can't deny it's one of the best directed episodes ever right? That one continuous shot of fighting going on everywhere blows my mind every time.

Also I do believe action is an integral part of the story. GRRM spends so much time explaining tactical decisions and warfare. It's only natural we see the actual battles to see which commanders tactics play out as planned and which commander fails. (Stannis leading the charge in 'Blackwater' really amazed me. Meanwhile Joffrey runs back to the Red Keep. Also, Tywin sits back in the reserves, only sweeping in to finish the fight usually.)

I don't buy the "if he dies and is battle rezzed, it'll release him from his oath" bullshit. He's either alive or he isn't. If he is, he has an oath. The end.

Well, if they do their whole 'his watch has ended' bullshit before he is rezzed, guess what? His watch has ended.


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I really hope they won't kill Stannis on screen this season. I'm really hoping we won't see the outcome of Ramseys mission on screen, but instead only see the pink letter.

[Paarthurnax]

Well, if they do their whole 'his watch has ended' bullshit before he is rezzed, guess what? His watch has ended.


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I really hope they won't kill Stannis on screen this season. I'm really hoping we won't see the outcome of Ramseys mission on screen, but instead only see the pink letter.

Could you imagine if they had every major character's fate up in the air by the end of the season?

[Laila]

It suits the Faith Militant to have Tommen on the Throne though, what are the other options? Stannis and the Red God? Balon and the Drowned God?

They might be fanatics, but they aren't stupid, having someone they can control, even if they are an abomination, is far better than having another religion as the state religion.

The faith were pretty cool with Targs most of the time.

Well, if they do their whole 'his watch has ended' bullshit before he is rezzed, guess what? His watch has ended.

My biggest problem with Jon coming back theories is that I really, really don't think it seems reasonable for The Night's Watch to be cool with dying and being magically resurrected as a way to get out of your vows.

[Frontenac]

She can't admit the incest not due to shame, but due to the whole "Tommen isn't the real heir to the throne" thing.

I think the incest they are refering to is her relations with her cousin Lancel, not her brother Jaime. No one but her, Jaime and Tyrion really know the truth about that. The Faith has really no reason to believe that Tommen is a bastard born of incest.

[KrazyK923]

Didn't the rumour about the incest with Jaime spread after Ned's death? If I recall, that was one of the reasons Joffrey got stuff thrown at him when he was King

Ned also sent a letter to Stannis telling him exactly what happened. Its the impetus for him to make a claim for the throne and start the entire War of Five Kings.

Its not exactly a super big secret anymore.

My biggest problem with Jon coming back theories is that I really, really don't think it seems reasonable for The Night's Watch to be cool with dying and being magically resurrected as a way to get out of your vows.

Its not exactly a common thing to have happen. Seems to be a trait that only the Red Priests and Priestesses of R'hllor can do, and that still is struggling to even get a foothold in Westeros. I doubt that the Night's Watch even had considered this when the rules were first written.

[Ilikegreenfire]

If Jon suddenly rises from the dead I am pretty sure the guys that just stabbed him are going to try and kill them again. Hell even if someone could explain R'hilor being able to resurrect people to them, i doubt they would let Jon just rise up and go on with his day. Tbh it is the perfect time for Jon to show off any new Azor Ahai powers he gets, either killing or subduing them.

[MikeBogina]

The breadcrumbs are all over it. They`ve been throwing it via Briennes lines - pretty much every single line this season - right in our faces.
Shireen is dead, its a matter of when - not if.

You see breadcrumbs, I see misleading.

GRRM does not stick with cliches. Brienne talking about killing Stannis over and over and being this heroine, so cliche. Not gonna happen. Shireen's fate, who knows.

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Apropos Varys: what's happening with him? Haven't seen him since Tyrion was taken away.

Was kinda hoping that he pops up. It wasn't like he was delivering Tyrion to her, he was going to see her and offered for him to come along so I would assume that he would still go to her. But they might try to play it like his whole goal was to deliver tyrion there and allowed Jorah to do instead(which means he's putting a lot of trust in him) and is now on his way back to Kingslanding.

[jakeic]

If Jon suddenly rises from the dead I am pretty sure the guys that just stabbed him are going to try and kill them again. Hell even if someone could explain R'hilor being able to resurrect people to them, i doubt they would let Jon just rise up and go on with his day. Tbh it is the perfect time for Jon to show off any new Azor Ahai powers he gets, either killing or subduing them.

it just doesn't make any sense for him to be resurrected after a mutiny, either the side that was against him won and they would want him dead again or the side that was for him won and they would expect him to be the lord commander of the Night's Watch. even if you gloss over that fact, having jon resurrected so he can shirk his vow to the night's watch would also go against pretty much everything his character has done in the story, i find it to be completely nonsensical.

[ringpriest]

Heh I was wondering the same thing about the wildling outfits.

People keep talking about "wildling camo" and such, and I have to admit that I just don't get where they're coming from. The wildlings are wearing primitive clothing: hides, furs, leather. Then they go and run around in the snow a whole lot, where it stays below freezing all the time - when you do that (say, because you're snowboarding), you get a crust of snow and ice on your gear - it's not a uniform coat, because some of it falls off, but it leads to you being covered in patches and patterns of snow. Now, if you're wearing modern gear that's 1) brightly colored and 2) designed to not have snow stick to it, it doesn't look anything like the Wildlings - but they're not in modern ski gear, they're in primitive clothes, and they all have snow and frost stuck to their clothes, thus the look.

I don't remember perfectly clearly, but last season, didn't the wildlings south of the wall have more "natural" clothing, without the white streaks everywhere?

For example:

[Grimbold21]

You know dat feeling u get when u watch smth where some animal is about to die?

Felt like that the entire time when Wun-wun was escaping.

[Ryme]

If Jon suddenly rises from the dead I am pretty sure the guys that just stabbed him are going to try and kill them again. Hell even if someone could explain R'hilor being able to resurrect people to them, i doubt they would let Jon just rise up and go on with his day. Tbh it is the perfect time for Jon to show off any new Azor Ahai powers he gets, either killing or subduing them.

I don't know, if I were living in those times I would consider someone being resurrected from the dead to be a pretty damn clear sign that person has some kind of god on their side and keep well clear of causing them grief.

[Eroginous]

That would have been bad writing. There were already enough people who escaped. They could have spread the word just as well. This was an opportunity to kill really strong opponents (Jon), and it would have been a waste to not do so IF you were able to. My best guess is therefore that they made them unable to swim (which is sort of logical, after all they are just skeletons)

If I find out that they can swim in the next episode I'm gonna go mental at this season's writing.

The show jumped the shark in season 2/3, and hasn't had good writing since. If you haven't gone mental by now, I doubt you ever will.

[Deleted]

I don't know, if I were living in those times I would consider someone being resurrected from the dead to be a pretty damn clear sign that person has some kind of god on their side and keep well clear of causing them grief.

But, think about what the brothers of the Nights Watch have already seen, dead folks coming back to life and trying to kill them. I doubt they'll wait around long enough to check if his eyes are blue if they see him rise from the dead.

[Velshin]

I have a question about Stannis here in this scene:



Can anyone confirm from where? to me it looks like he said that after defeating the Boltons maybe at the end of this season?

It could be just Blu Ray extra stuff I guess :P

[Graeham]

I really hope that Jon isn't reanimated. If he dies - which is likely given the direction of the books - then I firmly believe that he should stay dead. Let the prophecies surrounding him be mistaken - or else it'll just feel like pandering. So many wonderful characters have been killed off and made to endure realistic and gritty consequences so I don't believe Dany or Jon should be kept around. Seeing them die rather abruptly and fail would be far more satisfying for me than seeing them endure any and every obstacle put in their paths. It's far too 'mary sueish' for my liking.

I'm admittedly biased though given that I can't stand Jon or Dany. The intrigue in King's Landing interests me far more.

[Rabblexthree]

I really hope that Jon isn't reanimated. If he dies - which is likely given the direction of the books - then I firmly believe that he should stay dead. Let the prophecies surrounding him be mistaken - or else it'll just feel like pandering. So many wonderful characters have been killed off and made to endure realistic and gritty consequences so I don't believe Dany or Jon should be kept around. Seeing them die rather abruptly and fail would be far more satisfying for me than seeing them endure any and every obstacle put in their paths. It's far too 'mary sueish' for my liking.

I'm admittedly biased though given that I can't stand Jon or Dany. The intrigue in King's Landing interests me far more.

All the signs since the beginning of the books have pointed to Jon Snow being important. It would be incredibly stupid to throw all that away. Not pandering at all. It's the narrative.