[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Grimbold21]

I can give you tons of evidence if you'd like. It's funny, there's a group of us slowly accumulating more and more from the books. We're kind've in that "accretion" phase where we're realizing he's hidden more than we thought. Kind've like the first couple of R+L=J threads over at westeros.org.

But for you to dismiss it so out of hand when I've actually already given a bunch of rather convincing evidence lets me know that you don't seem to want to listen. So carry on I guess.

(For the rest of you, on the balance of probability, Tyrion is more likely to be A+J=T than T+J=T at this point.) How his Targaryen ancestry plays out is up in the air, though.

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Hmm, that's a good logical point. I didn't think of it that way. They didn't start with the arms they needed to take on a dragon and thus had limited ammo.

As for sticking around, that makes sense to me. These guys were killing slaves, unsullied, and masters alike. The only thing that seems to unite them is hatred for Dany. (Maybe some sort of historical connection to the enduring one-sided hatred between the Harpy and the Dragon of old Valyria?) So it makes sense to me that they would try to kill Dany's symbol and source of power. Imagine the change in fortunes had they succeeded.

Your evidence is lies on the premiss of a jape.made by Aerys on the marriage of Tywin and Joanna, that he reinstitute prima nocte.just to have his way with her.

On the othet hand my reply was made considering the imgs tha were linked as proof, where Twyin shows how he despises his son because he's a dwarf......and he ends killing.him.

Further, the source of his dislike, to say the least, lies on the fact that the birth of Tyrion killed his beloved Joanna, smth of which i believe theres a few passages on the book

[Sooba]

That pic of Jon warging looks like a fake.
The angle of camera barely changes and yet the blood is so different.

See above comment. And that's a terrible reason for it to be fake. The change isn't meant to be the camera angle. The pool of blood is spreading as his eyes cloud over.

[Deleted]

Interesting : http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/06/george-...wrunner-war/2/

[KrazyK923]

I think the one thing that gives me pause about the Warging of Jon as he dies (And I'm using spoiler tags because the episode isn't out yet, that's all) is that unlike the books the show has given zero indication that this was possible for him at all. I mean its not THAT big of a deal, but they made it seem like Bran was the only one who could do so out of the Starks, which is different from the books

[Sooba]

Your evidence is lies on the premiss of a jape.made by Aerys on the marriage of Tywin and Joanna, that he reinstitute prima nocte.just to have his way with her.

On the othet hand my reply was made considering the imgs tha were linked as proof, where Twyin shows how he despises his son because he's a dwarf......and he ends killing.him.

Further, the source of his dislike, to say the least, lies on the fact that the birth of Tyrion killed his beloved Joanna, smth of which i believe theres a few passages on the book

Uh... no. Thats not my evidence at all. Hahaha. That's only evidence that Aerys was sweet on Joanna. And we don't even need that evidence, since there's a description of a prior relationship between them before Tywin and Joanna married, (from a History of Ice and Fire.)

And yes the dwarfism, killing of his wife and other things obviously all play into the relationship. That certainly doesn't change the balance of probability at all.

[BarelyLegalBear]

I think the one thing that gives me pause about the Warging of Jon as he dies (And I'm using spoiler tags because the episode isn't out yet, that's all) is that unlike the books the show has given zero indication that this was possible for Jon at all. I mean its not THAT big of a deal, but they made it seem like Bran was the only one who could do so out of the Starks, which is different from the books

I'm starting to think all the Starks can warg.
Also, I can't wait for Sunday after seeing those pictures! Damn you Olly, why you gotta do this to me?

[Sooba]

I think the one thing that gives me pause about the Warging of Jon as he dies. /Snip. is that unlike the books the show has given zero indication that this was possible for Jon at all. I mean its not THAT big of a deal, but they made it seem like Bran was the only one who could do so out of the Starks, which is different from the books

Arya wargs in her sleep in the show. (And more explicitly in the books.) Rickon becomes almost wolf-like in the books since he's the youngest and the psyche of the wolf imprints on him most strongly. In the show it just seems to show him as more... angry? I don't even know.

I would chalk this up to D&D not being able to set things up as well as GRRM. Not that its not possible.

[KrazyK923]

I should clarify a bit more, I'm totally cool with all the Starks being able to (At least all of them showing potential outside of Sansa---and who knows, she might be able to but since Lady was killed, she lost like the tutorial of how to do it, if that makes sense), more that the show hadn't indicated that it was true outside of Bran for any of the other Starks.

I've begun looking at plot twists from the perspective of my parents, who haven't read the books and do not know overall ASOIAF lore. I could see them view this as a bit of a deus ex since we didn't get any indication of Jon or Arya being able to do so in the show, unlike the dreams they have in the books.

Arya wargs in her sleep in the show.

When does she do it in the show, even her dreams? I can't even recall a first person POV in the show that would warrant randomly showing one of the character's dreams.

[Sooba]

I'm starting to think all the Starks can warg.
Also, I can't wait for Sunday after seeing those pictures! Damn you Olly, why you gotta do this to me?

They can (or could have, in the case of Sansa). D&D did at least show that the wolf and the human shared emotional state; indicative of a mental/emotional connection.

[Grimbold21]

I'm starting to think all the Starks can warg.
Also, I can't wait for Sunday after seeing those pictures! Damn you Olly, why you gotta do this to me?

they do all warg

[BarelyLegalBear]

they do all warg

I know most of the Starks can, but what about Sansa? She was never really close with her wolf like the others.

[Grimbold21]

Uh... no. Thats not my evidence at all. Hahaha. That's only evidence that Aerys was sweet on Joanna. And we don't even need that evidence, since there's a description of a prior relationship between them before Tywin and Joanna married, (from a History of Ice and Fire.)

And yes the dwarfism, killing of his wife and other things obviously all play into the relationship. That certainly doesn't change the balance of probability at all.

And what passages are these? Cause from what i know of, those are described as rumours.

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I know most of the Starks can, but what about Sansa? She was never really close with her wolf like the others.

Well her wolf being dead, we cant really say. Yet they are described as wargs

[Wilian]

I think the one thing that gives me pause about the [splol]Warging of Jon as he dies[/splol] (And I'm using spoiler tags because the episode isn't out yet, that's all) is that unlike the books the show has given zero indication that this was possible for him at all. I mean its not THAT big of a deal, but they made it seem like [spoilol]Bran was the only one who could do so out of the Starks, which is different from the books[/splolr]

I miss last week's episode, just for the general lack of insensitivity in thread.

[Sooba]

I should clarify a bit more, I'm totally cool with all the Starks being able to (At least all of them showing potential outside of Sansa---and who knows, she might be able to but since Lady was killed, she lost like the tutorial of how to do it, if that makes sense), more that the show hadn't indicated that it was true outside of Bran for any of the other Starks.

I've begun looking at plot twists from the perspective of my parents, who haven't read the books and do not know overall ASOIAF lore. I could see them view this as a bit of a deus ex since we didn't get any indication of Jon or Arya being able to do so in the show, unlike the dreams they have in the books.



When does she do it in the show, even her dreams? I can't even recall a first person POV in the show that would warrant randomly showing one of the character's dreams.

Ergh. I'm gonna have to try and go back to tell you. All I can remember is that I think it began a scene and ended quickly, like within 10 seconds; with her waking up suddenly and something else quickly taking priority (Tywin ariving? Jaquen? I can't remember).

It would have been easy to dismiss as just a dream. Except in the same episode some character referred to "the wolves" being bad (dangerous), and another character replies "which ones?" (ie. Canus lupus, or Northerners?)

[KrazyK923]

Well I mean that sounds right and similar to the books, I just don't remember that whatsoever. I'd be interested in seeing it if you could find it.

[Sooba]

And what passages are these? Cause from what i know of, those are described as rumours.

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I had 3 posts in a row a few dozen pages back that had enough to convince a couple posters and that was about half of the sum total analysis. I could post in the thread or take it to PM's if you wish, because it's going to be a novella. You'll have to give me a day though. My gf has arrived with her malware infested laptop. So I've got some work to do, and a gf to hang out with.

[xuros]

Jon Snow
Ramsay Bolton
Melisandre
Stannis Baratheon

Two of these people will not survive the finale. Calling it. My money is on Jon & Stannis both being killed.

Jon will not die. Wasnt he stabbed in the books and it fades out with him bleeding but there was no confirmation of it? I think he has a bigger roll left to play in the story.

[Sooba]

Well I mean that sounds right and similar to the books, I just don't remember that whatsoever. I'd be interested in seeing it if you could find it.

Me too, now. Im hoping my memory isn't that bad. I'm gonna run grimbold's stuff first though, because it interests me more. And that after this damn laptop. oi.

[BarelyLegalBear]

Jon will not die. Wasnt he stabbed in the books and it fades out with him bleeding but there was no confirmation of it? I think he has a bigger roll left to play in the story.

He's going to die but he'll most likely warg right before the credits. It's also very likely that he'll be reborn as Azor Ahai by the works of Lady Melisandre unless they kill her off this Sunday.

[Deleted]

I do wonder what will make Mel change her mind.

What could force her to abandon Stannis and realize that all her visions and feelings about Jon arent just some side-effects of being in the middle of the war.
I also dont understand why does Mel need all the blood magic when Thoros of Myr easily ressurected Beric time after time without all of that crazy stuff.