[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[fakaroonie]

Rip Tommen. Every season atleast a king must die so... he's up.
Can't wait for the toj flashback, hope they do it justice.

[Airlick]

I do wonder if Jaime will find out that Trystane was murdered but blame Cersei for it, pushing her down a path of darkness as a result? That'd be suitably tragic - and it'd add further justification for her actions. I just hope she takes out much of the Faith Militant, Ellaria and her Sand Snakes before going down. I have a feeling that both Tommen and Cersei will die during this season. A shame given that she's my favourite remaining character.

One quick glance at the situation Lannisters are in, both in the books and the show, and you know they are screwed on every level, they just don't know it yet. Cersei might or might not die this season. She's supposed to get strangled by valonqar, which either means Tyrion or the Hound, after watching all of her children die.

I'm not too sure what could happen to Tommen. Maybe a random death while fighting Faith Militant? He seems to be considered a suitable king by most parties that could reach him at this point. Even Littlefinger wouldn't have much motivation to kill him, since he knows Tommen is weak and leaving him alive would probably make it easier for him to win the game of thrones in the long run - a weak king means all the important players will look to their own interests and try to undermine others. Considering Littlefinger thrives in situations like this, he's likely to come out on top.

Well, Tommen might get poisoned by newly converted Margaery, but while she'd have the support of the Reach and the common people, the other kingdoms might not recognize her as the queen without Tommen. She might not care if she goes full zealot, though.

Back to Cersei, if it's the Hound that the prophecy tells about, then yes, she might die this season (we all know Cleganebowl is coming, don't we?), but I doubt Tyrion will get to Westeros so soon. In any case, her fate is sealed, it's just a question whether she dies this or the next season. I wonder what will happen to Jaime, though. I can easily see him surviving.

[MCMLXXXII]

Rip Tommen. Every season atleast a king must die so... he's up.
Can't wait for the toj flashback, hope they do it justice.

Doran died though he was a prince. And Balon Greyjoy will probably die.

[Graeham]

One quick glance at the situation Lannisters are in, both in the books and the show, and you know they are screwed on every level, they just don't know it yet. Cersei might or might not die this season. She's supposed to get strangled by valonqar, which either means Tyrion or the Hound, after watching all of her children die.

I'm not too sure what could happen to Tommen. Maybe a random death while fighting Faith Militant? He seems to be considered a suitable king by most parties that could reach him at this point. Even Littlefinger wouldn't have much motivation to kill him, since he knows Tommen is weak and leaving him alive would probably make it easier for him to win the game of thrones in the long run - a weak king means all the important players will look to their own interests and try to undermine others. Considering Littlefinger thrives in situations like this, he's likely to come out on top.

Well, Tommen might get poisoned by newly converted Margaery, but while she'd have the support of the Reach and the common people, the other kingdoms might not recognize her as the queen without Tommen. She might not care if she goes full zealot, though.

Back to Cersei, if it's the Hound that the prophecy tells about, then yes, she might die this season (we all know Cleganebowl is coming, don't we?), but I doubt Tyrion will get to Westeros so soon. In any case, her fate is sealed, it's just a question whether she dies this or the next season. I wonder what will happen to Jaime, though. I can easily see him surviving.

I too think that there's a good chance that Margaery will become a zealot and somehow lead to Tommen's demise. I have my doubts that she'll survive...and I also doubt that Mace and Loras will stick around either. It's possible that the High Sparrow blackmails her with Loras to oppose Tommen in an attempt to get something he wants.

As for 'Cleganebowl' I hope it goes the way of Oberyn, personally. I've always loathed the theory - it felt very 'fanfic-y' to me. Though it would definitely be in line with the wonderful plot points that are 'bad pussy' and 'greedy bitch'.

>_>

As for Littlefinger, personally I'm banking on him coming out on top but...Westeros is in ruin and there's nothing left for him to take. It's also possible that Varys ends up in the same situation, or perhaps showing up to put Littlefinger out of his misery.

Speaking of Varys, though, since he isn't in King's Landing I do wonder who will end up killing Pycelle and Kevan? Cersei, perhaps, if they oppose her desire for vengeance? Or perhaps Margaery does it to destabilize King's Landing for the High Sparrow? Hm.

[I Push Buttons]

Speaking of Varys, though, since he isn't in King's Landing I do wonder who will end up killing Pycelle and Kevan? Cersei, perhaps, if they oppose her desire for vengeance? Or perhaps Margaery does it to destabilize King's Landing for the High Sparrow? Hm.

Probably no one, they will both just be written out the show... Like Dorne.

[lonely zergling]

Any thoughts who gets backstabbed in the trailer#2? From the shadow it looks like the Gregorzombie (the helmet kinda looks like the shadow). Is this the killer of hype?



At ~1:07.

[Grimbold21]

Any thoughts who gets backstabbed in the trailer#2? From the shadow it looks like the Gregorzombie (the helmet kinda looks like the shadow). Is this the killer of hype?



At ~1:07.

People have been through this before :P

It's Jaime's flashback, of him stabbing the Mad King.

[Deleted]

It's like some of you have never watch the series before...the episode is setting up the rest. Now stfu and stop complaining.

An episode can be setting up the rest of the season without having bad writting and directing like this one did. But hey apparently some people are too blind to see this

[lonely zergling]

People have been through this before :P

It's Jaime's flashback, of him stabbing the Mad King.

Hm, that would actually make sense! Good I was a bit scared for a moment, you know... the strong female #badpussy sisters are in kings landing...

[Thrif]

Probably because the emotional investment and evocativeness of the scenes is deadpan right now. These quotes and actions don't have the same intensity and scope as things did before. It's an undeniable fact, that random kid who got skewered through the stomach after he said he'd need to be carried when Arya and Gendry were on the run had more impact and feels behind it than anything that has happened with the Sand Snakes, and it's pretty easy to see that the first 4 seasons blow away S5 and so far 6 in that regard.

So, Stannis burning Shireen at the stake? No emotional investment or evocativeness there right?

[Airlick]

Hm, that would actually make sense! Good I was a bit scared for a moment, you know... the strong female #badpussy sisters are in kings landing...

I can't imagine a zombie would even feel that stab. He'd just turn around and take the head off the attacker. You can cut off their limbs, but that will only slow them down, you can only kill them with fire.

[Sooba]

Or it's there to just show us that she is 1.) older than she appears to be and 2.) to remind the audience that she does, in fact, actually wield magic, and 3.) suggest that it might be due to the gemstone in her necklace, which might end up being transferred to someone or something else. (Like, oh I dunno, a sword's pommel.)

By your logic, there was no point in the scene of Pycelle having sex and being in great shape.

Yeah... That last paragraph doesn't even make sense. And as dismissive as you are, his idea of contemplation is true whether or not she decides to give up. Not sure why you're picking that battle. And honestly if the only thing that happens to resurrect Jon is a little gem, I'd be relatively disappointed. Such an easy Maguffin to destroy and kill him again.

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One quick glance at the situation Lannisters are in, both in the books and the show, and you know they are screwed on every level, they just don't know it yet. Cersei might or might not die this season. She's supposed to get strangled by valonqar, which either means Tyrion or the Hound, after watching all of her children die.

Both possible. But neither of those are even the most likely. Not sure how you missed Jaime.

[Stone the Crow]

Yeah... That last paragraph doesn't even make sense. And as dismissive as you are, his idea of contemplation is true whether or not she decides to give up. Not sure why you're picking that battle.

The only thing I was being dismissive of was his idiotic idea that every scene has to contribute to the metaplot. Which is absurd, and what "that last paragraph" was referring to; the show is rife with scenes that don't contribute to the metaplot but instead teaches the audience something new or interesting about a character.

As it stands right now, that last scene of Melisandre was exactly that. Sure, it's main point was to show that there was something inherently special about the gemstone in her necklace, but trying to say that it "clearly" (as one person said) showed her giving up on the Lord of Light is absurd. It did nothing of the sort. All it really did was showing her being contemplative, that she is older than she appears, and that the gemstone has some magical power to it.

And, of course, you have other people saying that they "hate" scenes like that in general for completely irrational reasons and that it should never have been shot in the first place since it "didn't advance the storyline," all the while completely ignoring that its a regular thing on this show.

So, yeah, I would say that I'm sorry for not taking people's inane bullshit. But that would be dishonest because I'm not sorry at all.

[Sooba]

The first time Loras is given command he's getting roasted in his armor because he was too impatient to take Dragonstone by siege and decided to storm it. That's probably not going to happen in the show, but still, Loras is never shown as a competent commander. A good duelist, yes, famous all over Westeros, but that doesn't mean he's good at leading. He is portrayed as a rash scumbag in both books and the show.

Rash. Yes. Arrogant, yes. Scumbag? Not really, no.

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The only thing I was being dismissive of was his idiotic idea that every scene has to contribute to the metaplot. Which is absurd, and what "that last paragraph" was referring to; the show is rife with scenes that don't contribute to the metaplot but instead teaches the audience something new or interesting about a character.

As it stands right now, that last scene of Melisandre was exactly that. Sure, it's main point was to show that there was something inherently special about the gemstone in her necklace, but trying to say that it "clearly" (as one person said) showed her giving up on the Lord of Light is absurd. It did nothing of the sort. All it really did was showing her being contemplative, that she is older than she appears, and that the gemstone has some magical power to it.

And, of course, you have other people saying that they "hate" scenes like that in general for completely irrational reasons and that it should never have been shot in the first place since it "didn't advance the storyline," all the while completely ignoring that its a regular thing on this show.

So, yeah, I would say that I'm sorry for not taking people's inane bullshit. But that would be dishonest because I'm not sorry at all.

It clearly showed her contemplating giving up on the Lord of Light. Nothing inane about it. It fits right in with her depressed return to the wall last season. You're tilting at windmills. As for the gem having some sort of power, that was clear before when Maester Cressen tried to poison her. It still would make it awfully lame if that's what resurrects Jon.

And here's the thing: it can be both. You've created this really odd false dichotomy where that scene couldn't possibly have both meanings. The scene (to me) clearly shows her sorcery as a shadowbinder, the associated power in her necklace, and her clear disillusionment with that same sorcery and her faith.

So again, why so dismissive? You've chosen a really odd hill to die on.

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I look forward to quoting this post when you're proven wrong.

I... really? Blossom says that it's open to interpretation, and wasn't just to show her bedtime routine, and you disagree with that? What? You're not even internally consistent now.

[Stone the Crow]

It clearly showed her contemplating giving up on the Lord of Light.

No. It didn't. Not even in the slightest.

All it showed was her taking off the necklace and her glamour dropping. That was it. If anything, she was contemplating giving up her illusion of beauty for a greater cause, such as using its power to revive Jon Snow.

Nothing inane about it.

Except everything you're going on about.

It still would make it awfully lame if that's what resurrects Jon.

Agreed, but it was far more clear that was what she was contemplating rather than giving up her faith completely. Not that I think she was necessarily doing either, as it was clearly ambiguous what she was contemplating. Despite your attempts to say that it was "clearly" something specific. Which it wasn't.

And here's the thing: it can be both. You've created this really odd false dichotomy where that scene couldn't possibly have both meanings.

Wrong. Again.

I've maintained that there was nothing clear about it, other than that the three points I've already made; 1.) that she's older than she appears, 2.) that she was shrouded in an illusion, and 3.) that the gemstone in her necklace is a source of magical power.

Those are the only things that scene made clear. Anything else is pure speculation, which is the exact opposite of clarity.

Your refusal to acknowledge that is not my problem. But I'm certainly not going to let you try to say otherwise, either.

[Sooba]

/SNIP

Once again showing that you're willing to dismiss mountains of evidence because he doesn't show up in the very next show. In fact, I think I even predicted this would happen. And no, this wouldn't just be some small lore difference between show and books. It's kinda the whole central story. Just have some patience already, he'll be back.

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No. It didn't. Not even in the slightest.

All it showed was her taking off the necklace and her glamour dropping. That was it. If anything, she was contemplating giving up her illusion of beauty for a greater cause, such as using its power to revive Jon Snow.


Except everything you're going on about.


Agreed, but it was far more clear that was what she was contemplating rather than giving up her faith completely. Not that I think she was necessarily doing either, as it was clearly ambiguous what she was contemplating. Despite your attempts to say that it was "clearly" something specific. Which it wasn't.


Wrong. Again.

I've maintained that there was nothing clear about it, other than that the three points I've already made; 1.) that she's older than she appears, 2.) that she was shrouded in an illusion, and 3.) that the gemstone in her necklace is a source of magical power.

Those are the only things that scene made clear. Anything else is pure speculation, which is the exact opposite of clarity.

Your refusal to acknowledge that is not my problem. But I'm certainly not going to let you try to say otherwise, either.

Then your EQ is somewhere near zero, because her affect is clearly at an all time low in the last scenes of season 5 and her scenes in this episode. She's completely defeated, deflated, and depressed. If it's not "Clear" to you, then you're just not looking. And I'm not even making it that specific. Good grief, you're awfully pugnacious over something that really doesn't even need to be fought.

So reductionist, the idea that scenes can't have more than one purpose, meaning, or theme.

[Stone the Crow]

So reductionist, the idea that scenes can't have more than one purpose, meaning, or theme.

I see we have another intentionally obtuse person.

I never said that the scene couldn't also represent something else. I was pointing out that -- and pay attention this time -- the only things it clearly showed were the three points I've repeatedly stated. Everything else is pure speculation, up until the point it is actually demonstrated on screen in some fashion.

Was she giving up on the Lord of Light? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Was she just tired and people are reading too much into it? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Was she pondering whether or not to push out another cootie demon? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Did she just have an awful case of gas? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.

I know, it's a really hard concept to grasp.

[Sooba]

I see we have another intentionally obtuse person.

I never said that the scene couldn't also represent something else. I was pointing out that -- and pay attention this time -- the only things it clearly showed were the three points I've repeatedly stated. Everything else is pure speculation, up until the point it is actually demonstrated on screen in some fashion.

Was she giving up on the Lord of Light? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Was she just tired and people are reading too much into it? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Was she pondering whether or not to push out another cootie demon? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.
Did she just have an awful case of gas? Entirely possible. But we have no way of knowing if she was or not.

I know, it's a really hard concept to grasp.

And then argued rabidly with someone who said that maybe she's questioning herself. Like, ok?

As for "intentionally obtuse", no. Fuck no. Fuck off. Just because someone disagrees with you and has the temerity to show where you're going off the rails doesn't mean they're trying to screw you. Stop trying to make this into more.

And if you're actually going to try and take the position that only "clearly" demonstrated things matter in a show rife with symbolism, character development, prophecy, and intrigue, you're waaaaaaaay off base. You're taking increasingly extreme positions just to argue. It's ridiculous.

As for your last sentence, take your snide disrespect and shove it.

[Grimbold21]

http://watchersonthewall.com/new-pho...pisode-2-home/

Some new pics from next week's episode 2

[Grimbold21]

Gosh, their site seems to be running terribly slow right now.

You got that right.

Maybe it's overloaded with people trying to get in.