[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[eillas]

The thread title says "no spoilers," though.

I thought it says Spoiler discussion.

[TirielWoW]

I thought it says Spoiler discussion.

The title of this thread does. We aren't talking about this thread. We're talking about the other, show-only GoT thread.

[jdbond592]

Can you please summarise them here?

Do you really want to know.

Well here is one spoiler. A Stark bites it this season.

[Airlick]

Interesting thought. In the books, Euron hasn't yet reached Dany. I'm not sure which direction show-Euron is going to go, but if he's as unstable and crazy as the book Euron, it seems unlikely Dany or the Dothraki will trust him enough to get on his ships.

In the books, Euron isn't going to reach Mereen. Victarion is, and Victarion is anything but crazy and unstable. Well, as far as the ironborn go. Also, Euron can be charming and we know how Dany reacts to charming guys. The question is if show Euron does the same thing and sends Yara & Theon to fetch dragons for him, or does he go himself.

And yeah, I wonder how will Dany get her Dothraki across the sea. Her ships got burnt, and the Iron Fleet couldn't transport them all. A single ship (is it proper to call them a drakkar?) probably could transport several Dothraki warriors with accompanying horses and families, but there's also 8 thousands of Unsullied. Let's assume Dany agrees to leave the deadweight slaves behind and even leaves half of the Unsullied to keep them safe. She'd still need thousands of ships, and the Iron Fleet is only ~200 strong. So unless Dany goes on a rampage through Astapor and Yunkai on her way back and confiscates all the ships (which would mean that she has a long-term plan, and we all know she can't think 2 steps forward, so this isn't going to happen), there's no way she can transport her army.

[Deleted]

Victarion has gone a bit bonkers now that he's got the molten arm of doom though.

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Do you really want to know.

Well here is one spoiler. A Stark bites it this season.

Bit late to the party there bud, we've already post all the spoilers in here.

[Deleted]

In the books, Euron isn't going to reach Mereen. Victarion is, and Victarion is anything but crazy and unstable. Well, as far as the ironborn go. Also, Euron can be charming and we know how Dany reacts to charming guys. The question is if show Euron does the same thing and sends Yara & Theon to fetch dragons for him, or does he go himself.

And yeah, I wonder how will Dany get her Dothraki across the sea. Her ships got burnt, and the Iron Fleet couldn't transport them all. A single ship (is it proper to call them a drakkar?) probably could transport several Dothraki warriors with accompanying horses and families, but there's also 8 thousands of Unsullied. Let's assume Dany agrees to leave the deadweight slaves behind and even leaves half of the Unsullied to keep them safe. She'd still need thousands of ships, and the Iron Fleet is only ~200 strong. So unless Dany goes on a rampage through Astapor and Yunkai on her way back and confiscates all the ships (which would mean that she has a long-term plan, and we all know she can't think 2 steps forward, so this isn't going to happen), there's no way she can transport her army.

I don't know the size of this khalasar, but let's say they are 10k (Drogo's was 40K apparently. Source being gotwiki). Add to that 8K Unsullied and 2K Second sons. You are right, Ironborn fleet will not be enough for her to bring everyone. And I doubt that they will just do back and forths until everyone is in Westeros.

[Deleted]

What you guys don't realise is that Littlefingers has been shipping his jetpacks over to Essos for years now.

[Airlick]

What you guys don't realise is that Littlefingers has been shipping his jetpacks over to Essos for years now.

I'm afraid that might be as much explanation as we'll ever get when Dany does go to Westeros.

[Sooba]

Its defiantly fair to say that shes done a lot of bad shit. But shes also paranoid from being told a horrible prophecy as a child and its not like the Lannisters have ever been happy and she lost her mum young and her dad is a power hungry psycho. Cant find any empathy for her?

She's only afraid of the Maegi's prophecy because she made her own best friend's prophecy come true by murdering her in cold blood (actually water) while a young teen. Cersei was twisted since childhood. She was also an ass to Tyrion long before the prophecy was made as well. Can't really blame her circumstances so much.

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No, no, no - Tommen has to stay around, so that the poor dragons have a kinglet to eat when Danerys & Co arrive (Tyrion's horror at watching one of "his side's" dragons eat his nephew should be some good GRRM character-pain.)

This is entirely based on my theory that Arianne = MBQ; but I'm betting that Tommen is killed by Connington or a Sandsnake in the books to secure the throne for Aegon. Show-wise that would line up with a Sandsnake taking him out or him conveniently offing himself so that Ellaria can be the replacement MBQ. So this "leak" is plausible.

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I'm afraid that might be as much explanation as we'll ever get when Dany does go to Westeros.

Other than half a navy from the Iron Islands? Or a treaty from a frightened Slaver's Bay to send her on her way? Granted even with that, her "sail time" might be oddly short.

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Sounds like you have strong feelings for the character even if they are negative feelings. Means its a well written character and well acted. Otherwise you wouldn't care at all

I think... that was the point. I could be wrong but I think he wasn't saying he hated how Lena acted. He was saying he hated how Cersei acted. You kinda shifted the goalposts there. Although maybe that was what you meant to get at from the beginning?

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Interesting thought. In the books, Euron hasn't yet reached Dany. I'm not sure which direction show-Euron is going to go, but if he's as unstable and crazy as the book Euron, it seems unlikely Dany or the Dothraki will trust him enough to get on his ships.

In the books, it's the somewhat-less-visibly unstable Victarion approaching Slaver's Bay (with some folks beleiving that Euron is secretly following.) The show writers might just make Euron a bog-standard game-player asshole warrior-noble to have him perform his stuff.

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In the books, Euron isn't going to reach Mereen. Victarion is, and Victarion is anything but crazy and unstable. Well, as far as the ironborn go. Also, Euron can be charming and we know how Dany reacts to charming guys. The question is if show Euron does the same thing and sends Yara & Theon to fetch dragons for him, or does he go himself.

And yeah, I wonder how will Dany get her Dothraki across the sea. Her ships got burnt, and the Iron Fleet couldn't transport them all. A single ship (is it proper to call them a drakkar?) probably could transport several Dothraki warriors with accompanying horses and families, but there's also 8 thousands of Unsullied. Let's assume Dany agrees to leave the deadweight slaves behind and even leaves half of the Unsullied to keep them safe. She'd still need thousands of ships, and the Iron Fleet is only ~200 strong. So unless Dany goes on a rampage through Astapor and Yunkai on her way back and confiscates all the ships (which would mean that she has a long-term plan, and we all know she can't think 2 steps forward, so this isn't going to happen), there's no way she can transport her army.

Perhaps they make a deal if she starts roasting a bunch of them in their armor during battle? Seems logical that the ever shifting alliances of the free cities (and slaver's bay) and tendency to buy each other off might come into play.

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Victarion has gone a bit bonkers now that he's got the molten arm of doom though.

What's the over/under that said arm pulls a Peter Pettigrew? :P

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I doubt Qyburn will die this season. I think Cersei will be the queen of ashes for the next season. If we go by the prophecy, she might see Tommen die, but she might also get Margaery dead and start thinking that she beat the prophecy. At which point Dany comes to Westeros and Cersei ends up getting killed by Tyrion, therefore fulfilling the prophecy. Qyburn will die somewhere around that time. I won't be surprised if Cersei goes completely mad after Tommen's death, and Jaime blames everything that happened on Qyburn and offs him.

I wonder what will happen to Jaime, though. He's by far one of the best characters in both the books and the show, most importantly, he's torn and there's no telling what he would do or what would happen to him in a two-way scenario. He said he'd kill Tyrion if he saw him again, but would he really do that? What would Dany do if she captured him? After all, Jaime killed her father, but on the other hand, he'd changed a lot since then.

I'd put bigger money on Jaime being the one to off her. He's her only true full-blooded younger brother, and has far more access to her. I just don't see Cersei lasting long enough for Tyrion/Dany to get to Westeros. Even if she did, I don't see Tyrion caring enough to kill her in so intimate a manner. He'd rather give her the trial that she so gleefully foisted on him.

Some people seem to forget that Jaime is the younger twin and so still fits the prophecy. And upon making him the Hand of the King, he will have an entire necklace of hands to strangle her with -- Tyrion/Shae style. He killed a King when said King tried to burn the city. I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same to a Queen (Regent).

I could be wrong. Just seems more likely on the balance of probability.

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They need to streamline the plot for TV, and control the budget. I think that's the real motivation behind a lot of the changes, why we don't have the Quentin Martell storyline, why Jojen died, why Jorah's taking on Connington's role and Faegon's not in the series, and why Sansa married Ramsey instead of Alayne. I'm not opposed to it, the reality is the books have sprawled out of control and the series is trying to keep things together a bit more.

Partially. They also got rid of him because they disliked him. (The actor.) They make reference to it in a few interviews, and they openly mocked him after he wrote a letter asking why they had removed him earlier than the books.

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Five.

He gets a pretty cool fight in the last book. Seems like a huge waste. If they wanted shock value they could've just killed Daario.

See above.

[Ethenil]

Victarion is a bit crazy though. Anyway, Balon was mad, Aeron is madder, and Euron is the maddest of them all.

[Sooba]

Victarion is a bit crazy though. Anyway, Balon was mad, Aeron is madder, and Euron is the maddest of them all.

Hence why I said "somewhat less visibly". He'd just come across as a standard bloodthirsty hardened warrior. Dany has dealt with those before.

[tehealadin]

What is MBQ?

[Sooba]

What is MBQ?

"More beautiful Queen" of "Maggy-the-Frog"'s prophecies to Cersei. (Maggy itself likely being a childlike misunderstanding of "Maegi".)

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maggy - The show beautified the character. She is old and looked (to Cersei and Melara) like a frog. She gave three prophecies that evening. One of which came true almost instantly. The other two were related to Cersei's children, and Cersei's death. Two mysterious characters emerge in particular: One the "valonqar" who will kill her and the other the "more beautiful queen" who will "take all that (she) hold(s) dear" after her children have all died.

It's fairly evident by the wording of the first prophecy and the way in which Melara died that Cersei murdered her to keep her quiet, thereby ensuring the prophecy came true and touching off her own paranoia. Ever since, Cersei has been homocidally suspicious of anyone who she deems to be either figure. The whole story is very much like MacBeth.

[pateuvasiliu]

Do you really want to know.

Well here is one spoiler. A Stark bites it this season.

Yeah, Rickon. Anything else?

And yes, I do, else I wouldn't be in the spoiler thread.

[Therougetitan]

Speaking of prophecies I think Jaime Lannister will be the younger brother who will kill Cersei after finding out she was the one who used wildfire in King's Landing. That was the entire reason he killed the Mad King only for his sister to do it.

[pateuvasiliu]

Yeah, Jaime will kill Cersei, 100%.

Not sure on the show, did they even show the valonqar part?

[eschatological]

Yeah, Jaime will kill Cersei, 100%.

Not sure on the show, did they even show the valonqar part?

They had the flashback with Cersei, and I think they explained valonquar at some point.

[Sooba]

Yeah, Jaime will kill Cersei, 100%.

Not sure on the show, did they even show the valonqar part?

No. I don't even remember if they finished anything after the part where the children die. (MBQ). So far show-only folks only know that she's paranoid about her children.

Edit: Yep. They got the MBQ part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHGNoMjHn8 Nothing about the valonqar though.

[Deleted]

No. I don't even remember if they finished anything after the part where the children die. (MBQ). So far show-only folks only know that she's paranoid about her children.

Edit: Yep. They got the MBQ part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHGNoMjHn8 Nothing about the valonqar though.

Probably kept it secret on purpose.
Valonqar = Little brother. But it was never specified if it was "her" little brother.
Two theories were around before this seaosn and the leaks:
- Jaime kills Cersei.
- The Hound kills Cersei through trial by combat. Although why would the opposite champion do the deed.

Anyway the leaks said there wasn't any CLeganebowl this season.
So that leaves Jaime.

[pateuvasiliu]

Many times those prophecies aren't taken literal.

Dany, as Azor Ahai, was born in Dragonstone, amidst salt ( the sea ) and smoke. Jon was murdered by crying men ( salt, tears ), his wounds smoked and whatshisface, the guy that died, had a star on his House Sigil, which was full of blood from his wounds ( red comet ).

Both fit the Azor Ahai mytho.

The Hound doesn't have to kill Cersei to fulfill the prophecy, he only has to win the trial, which will lead in Cersei dying. But I doubt that'll happen. Jaime will kill her. It'll come full circle. Just like he did the right thing by killing Aerys so many years ago he'll do the right thing now. He doesn't love her in the books anymore, though the show seems to have regressed Jaime to his S1-S2 self.