[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[wowaccounttom]

jon snow

dies

[Sooba]

Regarding Arya I just had a thought that may not be original but I'll put it out there:

Braavos is known for two things: the Faceless Men and the Iron Bank. What if the two are linked more closely than we think? Last episode Jaqen said the Faceless founded Braavos and we know that they charge a huge sum for their services, maybe that's the seed money for the Iron Bank?

If so, we know that the Iron Bank has a lot of interest in Westeros, and they'd undoubtedly view Arya Stark as an asset. So maybe Arya kills Waif, face added to hall, somehow Iron Bank intercedes on Arya's behalf and she goes back to Westeros.

Also not my property, but another possible link that I read about some time ago. -- The faceless men prattle a bit about the "many faced god", but their actions are to kill for large sums of money. There's no real mysticism in that. It seems to me that the god they serve is money, which conveniently is always stamped... with many faces.

Edit: appears someone made the same observation in the comment section of that article.

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The more I think of it, if the Faceless Men were involved with the Bank of Braavos, it would be like a mashup of two organizations, the Knights Templar, and the Hashashin (origin of the word assassin) who were their Muslim rivals. That'd be pretty cool.

Which incidentally bears more than a passing resemblance to the words Nissa Nissa :P Not really evidence of any sort, but suspiciously close.

[Jotaux]

jon snow

dies

Don't put that in spoiler tags, some people around here lose their shit over it.

[Sooba]

Don't put that in spoiler tags, some people around here lose their shit over it.

For good reason. Also, it's also not even a spoiler and is clearly just baiting.

Anywho, fully read that article. Interesting connections. I think he's right in the general sense / induction. Some of his smaller details / deductions become a little less likely the further he strays from his central concept. It makes me wonder what their endgame is, though.

[eschatological]

That's refreshing, to hear a new theory that makes sense, after like 2 decades of this series.

[Frontenac]

If there was an award for the Dumbest Idiot of the show, Jaime Lannister would have won it for last episode. The idea of using the Tyrells forces was to get around the King's orders of not attacking the High Sparrow, so that the Hand of the King would not send the Gold Cloaks and go against these orders. And now you have the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard himself involved and leading that force with Mace Tyrell. Hey, bonehead, haven't you figured out that if the King ordered his Hand not to attack that it would be even more true for his own guard? Even worse: he's the Lord Commander, I repeat, the Lord Commander, the Head Honcho of the Guard, and he doesn't even know 1) where is the King and 2) where are his own men! And the stupid golden buffoon is even surprised and incensed of being stripped of his rank and thrown out of the guard with a royal kick on his golden arse...

Let us all congratulate him with the proverbial sarcastic clap:

Clap. Clap.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Nerdwriter believes that the reason why GRRM's realistic medieval series has befallen to the dreaded-fantasy cliche of medieval stasis actually makes sense, because the dragons are causing it.

[Deleted]

Or it could have something to do with the fact that Maesters are playing there own game and want to keep control for themselves.

If you let every Tom, Dick and Harry start inventing stuff, then you lose the power as the smartest people in the land.

[Sooba]

Or it could have something to do with the fact that Maesters are playing there own game and want to keep control for themselves.

If you let every Tom, Dick and Harry start inventing stuff, then you lose the power as the smartest people in the land.

That works for Westeros, but what about Essos and the Summer Isles?

[Naxere]

I wonder who's going to kill Tommen (assuming the prophecy comes true). Tyrells are again an option, if they really don't mean this whole "Margaery is religious now" thing, especially with Loras still in the dungeons. Other options are numerous - dragons, white walkers, fire, hell even Arya.

My guess is Cersei loses her trial by combat, blows up the Sept with Tommen inside (unknowlingly to her) via Wildfire, then kills herself in her grief.

[Deleted]

Nerdwriter believes that the reason why GRRM's realistic medieval series has befallen to the dreaded-fantasy cliche of medieval stasis actually makes sense, because the dragons are causing it.

So...without the Targaryens, if they hadn't come, Westeros would have changed why? They had medieval society for 10 000 years...kinda rich to blame Targaryens for holding back progress...

imho what has held that world back are those insane climate changes, looong extreme winters makes people band together only with people they trust n are wary of outsiders trying to steal their shit, provisions n home, those winters are serious existential threats to much of westerosi..
Thus one's word has value, people need to trust each other like crazy, that's why oath-breakers etc. are so despised, and bastards who might feel less belonging to group or tend to be more un-reliable, are thus resented...characteristics that don't help there is a low tolerance for...
There's strong culture to 'fortify' indentity n home, castle-building with protective walls n large storage-facilities is what everyone wants to have...the winters are straight-jacking Westerosi into medieval way of life...we think they are extreme now, and that's during their summer, we haven't seen Westerosi what they are like when Winter comes...If you are not in a castle, outside, the laws ceaze to exist, because it's almost everyone for themselves and no lord would want to send out troops to hang some thieving peasant, try to find him in the blistering cold, too much risk for the troops not to manage to return...
...so Westerosi outside castles become like beasts, maybe even resort to cannibalism...maybe don't have to be in castles, at least fortified villages n towns...who are vary of outsiders...basically winter = bunker down n nobody wants someone to eat the common food if they can't be trusted...

Jaimie Lannister is universially despised even by those who hated the mad king, because it's far worse to break your oath than burning some people..everyone who isn't reliable is scum..

The irony is that those who protect the world from the long night, are the scum of society, oath-breakers, rapers, thieves, murderers etc.

I don't see how dragons halt progress...

[eschatological]

Guns, Germs and Steel would have you believe winters make progress happen.

[Absintheminded]

My guess is Cersei loses her trial by combat, blows up the Sept with Tommen inside (unknowlingly to her) via Wildfire, then kills herself in her grief.

According to leaks, there won't be a trial by combat, she blows up the sept with a bunch of Tyrell's and Sparrows inside, and Tommen throws himself from a window.

[Frontenac]

Didn't bother me much. If GRRM had written a book first, I'm sure we'd have a more detailed explanation and/or Jaime not there, but the showrunners tend to forget to flesh everything out sometimes and just go for what's dramatic (see all the "jetpack" jokes - and by the way there's just not enough time to crap all that into TV). It's more dramatic to have Jaime there so they did.

I wonder who's going to kill Tommen (assuming the prophecy comes true). Tyrells are again an option, if they really don't mean this whole "Margaery is religious now" thing, especially with Loras still in the dungeons. Other options are numerous - dragons, white walkers, fire, hell even Arya.

It didn't bother me either. I think it was pretty much in character. Jaime never was that cunning and neither was Cersei.

As for Tommen, suicide is an option. Imagine he learns that uncle Jaime is really his father... Tommen is much more principled, especially now that he is a devout follower of the Faith. He would know that his rule as King is not legimate. Now who would tell him the good news? Someone he could believe, who would be able to show him evidences of his incestuous birth?

[Damajin]

According to leaks, there won't be a trial by combat, she blows up the sept with a bunch of Tyrell's and Sparrows inside, and Tommen throws himself from a window.

Depending on how that is portrayed onscreen, how the direction goes and whatnot that could be either really fascinating or really lame and that's a pretty big dynamic to have. If the buildup to the explosion is something close to how they handled the Wildfire trap in the Battle of Blackwater it could be an amazing moment in the show, if it's something straight out of how they directed the entire Dorne 'story' than it'll be a major letdown.

[eschatological]

It didn't bother me either. I think it was pretty much in character. Jaime never was that cunning and neither was Cersei.

As for Tommen, suicide is an option. Imagine he learns that uncle Jaime is really his father... Tommen is much more principled, especially now that he is a devout follower of the Faith. He would know that his rule as King is not legimate. Now who would tell him the good news? Someone he could believe, who would be able to show him evidences of his incestuous birth?

They *could* go with Jaime trying to be a father to him. But I assume you're going for High Sparrow being Howland Reed?

[Frontenac]

They *could* go with Jaime trying to be a father to him. But I assume you're going for High Sparrow being Howland Reed?

In the show, I don't believe HS = HR. Someone does not age that much in 15-20 years. So, if HS is really HS, telling the truth to Tommen would be like cutting the branch he's sitting on. He just made an alliance with the Crown, fragilizing it now would not be a good move. Unless he really wants to install a real theocracy. He could turn KL into a theocracy, but ruling the rest of the kingdom would be harder. I suppose Lancel knows, so if he knows, then HS knows. The Tyrells have never been that close to power with Margaery as Queen, so they will not risk that either. Maybe Varys will send his little birds? Varys most certainly knows about the twins lovin'. I suppose it could be revealed during Cersei's trial.

[Deleted]

That works for Westeros, but what about Essos and the Summer Isles?

Dothraki murdering everyone. Slavers wanting to keep things the way they are, automation means no more need for slaves, means less business.

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Depending on how that is portrayed onscreen, how the direction goes and whatnot that could be either really fascinating or really lame and that's a pretty big dynamic to have. If the buildup to the explosion is something close to how they handled the Wildfire trap in the Battle of Blackwater it could be an amazing moment in the show, if it's something straight out of how they directed the entire Dorne 'story' than it'll be a major letdown.

Well apparently, the Sand Snakes are back for the finale, so maybe they blow up the sept.

"You want the good faith, but you need the bad pussy"

cue wildfire explosion.

[Deleted]

Dothraki murdering everyone. Slavers wanting to keep things the way they are, automation means no more need for slaves, means less business.

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Well apparently, the Sand Snakes are back for the finale, so maybe they blow up the sept.

"You want the good faith, but you need the bad pussy"

cue wildfire explosion.

Yes. I need this in my life.

"I am Obara Sand, my father once said...."

[Graeham]

I wonder how they are going to fit the Sand Snakes into the finale? Hopefully it results in them being killed...