[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Frontenac]

So you're suggesting she pull a tom cruise and recruit an army of religious fanatics on your side for business and security reasons. Smart move i like it.

Who's talking of religious fanatics?I'm not suggesting she recruits armed zealots to her cause (well, to be honest, the dothraki and unsullied are pretty much that). I'm talking about support from the main religion of the Seven Kingdoms. Having the support of the Faith would help her greatly and undermine Cersei's authority.

[Deleted]

A Knight on foot beats a Dothraki on foot.

A Dothraki on horseback however? Different story entirely.

Scouts are peasants, scouting is not something you send a knight or his squire to do, not unless he is being punished.

Doesn't mater, the dothraki are far superior mounted warriors, all they have to do is kill the horse to stop the scour. Having your horse topple out from under you in full armor can cripple you.

It doesn't matter anyway if the scouts are killed or not. The scouts are supposed to report all the time. If they are killed, the absence of reports would still notify of an approaching enemy. This is what happened during Whispering Wood - Blackfish was killing Jaime's scouts except Jaime's mistake was that he just assumed they were killed by bandits and then rode out to deal with them himself. You simply have no business being ambushed by a huge army. If you did, you screwed up, period.

[RobertoCarlos]

Who's talking of religious fanatics?I'm not suggesting she recruits armed zealots to her cause (well, to be honest, the dothraki and unsullied are pretty much that). I'm talking about support from the main religion of the Seven Kingdoms. Having the support of the Faith would help her greatly and undermine Cersei's authority.

Isnt she already aligned with the Red Priests of R'hllor as you said, so wouldnt that be like double dipping? Christians wouldn't fight with believers of Allah.

The fanatics bit was just a joke

[Ilikegreenfire]

It doesn't matter anyway if the scouts are killed or not. The scouts are supposed to report all the time. If they are killed, the absence of reports would still notify of an approaching enemy. This is what happened during Whispering Wood - Blackfish was killing Jaime's scouts except Jaime's mistake was that he just assumed they were killed by bandits and then rode out to deal with them himself. You simply have no business being ambushed by a huge army. If you did, you screwed up, period.

Robbs army wasn't made out of entirely light cavalry, after they kill the first few scouts its pretty much too late for the lannisters as the Dothraki are all mounted and move fast as hell.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

The overwhelming majority of the force on that field was neither knight nor squire.

That's because Dany took out, essentially, the last of the reserves of Jaime's forces. The brunt of their army was already past the gates with the gold; these were the logistic lollygaggers taking up the rear with all the other supplies.

This was just a show of force for Dany and was a compromise between taking out King's Landing and having listened to Jon's advice that the people will not want to support you if you just burn civilians and castles. So she struck a 100% military force with no collateral damage. So what if it wasn't the main force, and so what if she (probably unknowingly) didn't get all that gold? She accomplished what she set out to do; to show that she had a hardcore army of Mongols and draconic air support. Plus she learned about their new weapon and will potentially be able to prepare for it in the future.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter anyway if the scouts are killed or not. The scouts are supposed to report all the time. If they are killed, the absence of reports would still notify of an approaching enemy. This is what happened during Whispering Wood - Blackfish was killing Jaime's scouts except Jaime's mistake was that he just assumed they were killed by bandits and then rode out to deal with them himself. You simply have no business being ambushed by a huge army. If you did, you screwed up, period.

It takes time for the absence of reports to be noticed, if it didn't and they were reporting all the time, they wouldn't be very good scouts because they'd be constantly back and forth. It's not like they have walkie talkies, the job of a scout during medieval times was to find weaknesses in the enemy army on offense, and leg it back to base to tell people trouble is coming on defence, if the Dothraki can outride the scouts (which they can, being Dothraki and all), then no warning is recieved, if they immediately attack after that, there's been no time for the army to put 2 and 2 together to realise they are already under attack.

This is how surprise attacks work, why are you trying to argue about military tactics when its plain that you have no idea what you're talking about?

[Ilikegreenfire]

It takes time for the absence of reports to be noticed, if it didn't and they were reporting all the time, they wouldn't be very good scouts because they'd be constantly back and forth. It's not like they have walkie talkies, the job of a scout during medieval times was to find weaknesses in the enemy army on offense, and leg it back to base to tell people trouble is coming on defence, if the Dothraki can outride the scouts (which they can, being Dothraki and all), then no warning is recieved, if they immediately attack after that, there's been no time for the army to put 2 and 2 together to realise they are already under attack.

This is how surprise attacks work, why are you trying to argue about military tactics when its plain that you have no idea what you're talking about?

Imma quote this for later when i gotta explain how killing scouts work on reddit, or here.

[IIamaKing]

If a dothraki scout meets Jaime's scout, I would bet on a Jaime's scout, considering that it was established in the first season that a knight>a dothraki.

Scouts are not in full plate typically, hard to sneak about as such. ALl the scouts we have seen are in leather or cloth stuff. And its not Knight>Dothraki, its Full plate>arakh.

[pateuvasiliu]

Bronn didn't have armour and he was dehorsed by a Dothraki with no problems.

The Dothraki have no compare when it comes to horse combat, they are born in the saddle.

If PIS is on maybe.

If a dothraki went against Rhaegar Targaryen atop a horse with a lance he'd lose every damn time.

Armor >> nothing

Lance >> arakh

[Ilikegreenfire]

If PIS is on maybe.

If a dothraki went against Rhaegar Targaryen atop a horse with a lance he'd lose every damn time.

Armor >> nothing

Lance >> arakh

A random Dothraki Rhaegar ya. Drogo Vs Rhaegar....

we have yet to see a mounted knight in armor with a lance vs a mounted dothraki(dothraki use spears too).

You cant do all that tricky saddle shit and jumps the dothraki do in armor.

[Frontenac]

Isnt she already aligned with the Red Priests of R'hllor as you said, so wouldnt that be like double dipping? Christians wouldn't fight with believers of Allah.

The fanatics bit was just a joke

I would say that the Red Priests of R'hllor are aligned with her. Besides, she's in Westeros now. The Red Priests were useful in Meereen because the Red God has a lot of worshippers all over Essos. In Westeros, it's another business. Also, Kinvara knows that Dany does not believe in R'hllor. She still believes Dany is the One That Was Promised, just like Melisandre believes Jon is, even if he still worships the Old Gods.

[Deleted]

It takes time for the absence of reports to be noticed, if it didn't and they were reporting all the time, they wouldn't be very good scouts because they'd be constantly back and forth. It's not like they have walkie talkies, the job of a scout during medieval times was to find weaknesses in the enemy army on offense, and leg it back to base to tell people trouble is coming on defence, if the Dothraki can outride the scouts (which they can, being Dothraki and all), then no warning is recieved, if they immediately attack after that, there's been no time for the army to put 2 and 2 together to realise they are already under attack.

This is how surprise attacks work, why are you trying to argue about military tactics when its plain that you have no idea what you're talking about?

Except, you know, scouts not scouting alone but forming parties. That way you can scout AND report at the same time.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Except, you know, scouts not moving one by one.

You know that goes for the Dothraki scouts as well, so moot point.

[pateuvasiliu]

A random Dothraki Rhaegar ya. Drogo Vs Rhaegar....

we have yet to see a mounted knight in armor with a lance vs a mounted dothraki(dothraki use spears too).

You cant do all that tricky saddle shit and jumps the dothraki do in armor.

Bronn was never a horseman, he isn't a knight, after all.


And Rhaegar would tear Drogo a new one. Essos fighting isn't like Westeros fighting at all.

Lance >>> Spear.

Westeros knights are trained on tourneys, they specialise in 1v1 mounted combat. Dothrakis specialise in raids.

We've already seen they're utterly incapable in that 3000 Unsullied vs 50,000 Dothraki fight.

[IIamaKing]

Except, you know, scouts not scouting alone but forming parties. That way you can scout AND report at the same time.

Previous Lannister scouts have been shown to be singular units.

[RobertoCarlos]

I would say that the Red Priests of R'hllor are aligned with her. Besides, she's in Westeros now. The Red Priests were useful in Meereen because the Red God has a lot of worshippers all over Essos. In Westeros, it's another business. Also, Kinvara knows that Dany does not believe in R'hllor. She still believes Dany is the One That Was Promised, just like Melisandre believes Jon is, even if he still worships the Old Gods.

Yeah good point. I think its a good idea, the High Sparrow himself was quite a worthy opponent to the lannisters once he had the people with him before he was blown up.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Bronn was never a horseman, he isn't a knight, after all.


And Rhaegar would tear Drogo a new one. Essos fighting isn't like Westeros fighting at all.

Lance >>> Spear.

Westeros knights are trained on tourneys, they specialise in 1v1 mounted combat. Dothrakis specialise in raids.

We've already seen they're utterly incapable in that 3000 Unsullied vs 50,000 Dothraki fight.

I want knight about Bronn

A named character will always take down at least a few nameless fodder.

Spears can be thrown, throw the spear at the knight and either knock him off or throw it the horse and have it topple over on the knight crushing him.

[Spryte]

Man, you could feel the fear in the soldiers at the start of the battle, it felt really horrific to me. Could you imagine being in their position? How awful it would be to be one of the peasants drafted up to the army and put into those front lines.

Also the scenes of Tyrion and Jamie looking out over the battlefield, seeing the lannister men running around in fear and terror or burning to death, kind like a 'what have I done?' moment.

[pateuvasiliu]

Man, you could feel the fear in the soldiers at the start of the battle, it felt really horrific to me. Could you imagine being in their position? How awful it would be to be one of the peasants drafted up to the army and put into those front lines.

Also the scenes of Tyrion and Jamie looking out over the battlefield, seeing the lannister men running around in fear and terror or burning to death, kind like a 'what have I done?' moment.

That's what the transition to Tyrion and the sad Rains of Castamere was meant to do ( as well as the peasant boys in Episode 1 ), it's meant to make you think.

At the end of the day the ASOIAF story is an anti-war statement, since it focuses a lot on the horrors of war.

And I, for one, think Daenerys is in the wrong. You can't call yourself a savior only to invade a country you have no business wanting to rule.

Her brother and father were killed fair game, her house was deposed fair game. No one was going to accept another Targaryen ruler after the shit they pulled. She has no right to come back and demand people to bow before her. She's just power hungry and self entitled.

[Logwyn]

No she had a dragon, it can breathe fire all day, it was a waste of lives to send Dothraki in first, they could be the clean up crew. No one else bothered to jump on the Scorpion or maybe Bronn is only one with Infrared vision ?

Err if I recall the Dragon breathed on the enemy then the Dothraki hit the line. Perfect plan actually. Well if you've never need "bird" as large as a 747 for the first time you'd be in awe too. Wasn't expecting it at all. They were surprised to even being hit by any army as well.