Did we need this nerf? (holy)

[eErike]

I'm betting that the nerf relates to the t12 2pc bonus.



Maybe they saw that Paladins could sit there forever and heal the tank and not go oom. That could be the only reason I could see a reason for a nerf to the mana cost of spells. They might test it out this way and decide to revert the nerf and change the 2pc.

Don't think they would balance a class while assuming everyone everywhere will have the 4/5 t12 :/

[Deleted]

Umm, didnt they alrdy increase the manacosts by 10% in previous patch? And tbh, hpaladin mana is like it was in Wrath. You can still spam heal without worrying about going oom (if you use judgement on CD and use potionofconcencration/divineplea at the same time at not so healing heavy parts). I've only done 3 hc bosses on my paladin though (magmaw, halfus, chimi), never ever I had mana problems. I think its a pointless nerf that wound affect hpaladins that much. I might be wrong but yea, could really care less.

[Dakia]

You do realize that even before this nerf the 2pc is useless?

How do you consider it to be worthless? Each of the healing specs has a similar 2p bonus. Now they are basically forcing you to take it.

Don't think they would balance a class while assuming everyone everywhere will have the 4/5 t12 :/

They have done similar changes before. There is precedent for a nerf due to an upcoming set up bonus change. I can't remember if it was t8 > t9 or t9 > t10, but elemental shaman had one of their main damage spells directly nerfed to force them to move to the tier set bonus.

[Fenixhart]

Well, it is in green text, so...

[Cael]

No, this wasn't needed. But keep in mind that these are just PTR changes. They might very well be turned back to the way they were tomorrow.

[nikat]

Holy Paladin PVP is just getting worse and worse...

/respec retri

Not to agree/disagree with the buff/nerf, but holy pally pvp issues has little to nothing to do with mana.

[Malthanis]

How do you consider it to be worthless? Each of the healing specs has a similar 2p bonus. Now they are basically forcing you to take it.

It's worthless because it negates the benefits of Holy's greatest utility (Beacon, if you were wondering). Under current Holy healing, targeting your beacon with a direct heal isn't the most desirable of targets, as you lose healing (100% on the target, 50% on the beacon as opposed to just 100% on the beacon). Granted, you probably will cast a heal on your beacon at some point, but it won't be that often.

The other healer's 2pc bonuses conform to the way they heal naturally, and they won't have to do anything out of the ordinary to gain a benefit.

[Nillo]

How do you consider it to be worthless? Each of the healing specs has a similar 2p bonus. Now they are basically forcing you to take it.

2% base mana (= half of an auto hit swing) at a 40% chance on a target you should only put about 10% of your heals on.
Besides someone has already mathed and even if you'd exclusively heal your beacon the bonus would be only about 1/3 as good as what the other classes get.

[Deleted]

The HL change is minute, while the DL change is a bit more, it's already a spell that we shouldn't be spamming anyway. It cost a lot, and now it just costs a lot +1.
Also, what the above guy said, the 4pc will make it pretty OP.

What the hell are you talking about. i don't know about your progression but when your guild ist doing cho'gall or sinestra heroic with only 2 healers, you will sure as hell just about only cast divine lights at all cost. sure you do your holy shock etc. but in no way do the smaller casts actually keep your group or the tanks alive!

And reffering to the T12 set bonuses....if the are giong to nerf all the healers because of that, its fine.... but seeing that all the healers have pretty much the same bonuses, it would'nt really make a sense when only the paladin would get nerfed Oo

i myself do not play a holy pally, but i am in a pretty good guild working on sinestra for 13/13...but i do see all our different healers doing their job...the paladin is in no way the best of them. sure the paladin ist ok, but in no good shape against druids or priests!
The patch isn't out yet, but at this moment...i do not really get why blizzard nerf the paladins over and over. (not even only the holy ones ;S )

[Malthanis]

How do you consider it to be worthless? Each of the healing specs has a similar 2p bonus. Now they are basically forcing you to take it.

A new response, with more extrapolation and math (from someone who isn't me)!

Hmm, let's compare all the healing 2P T12 sets.

Holy Paladin:
Casting Flash of Light, Holy Light, or Divine Light on your Beacon of Light target has a 40% chance to grant you 2% of your base mana.

Holy/Discipline Priest:
Your Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal spells cause you to regenerate 2% of your base mana every 5 sec for 15 sec.

Restoration Shaman:
Your periodic healing from Riptide has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

Restoration Druid:
Your periodic healing from Lifebloom has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

With that information let's see in my last log (Maloriak 25H) how those set bonuses are used.

I seem (Holy Paladin) to have healed my beacon 8 times with Divine Light,4 times with Holy Light and 0 times with Flash of Light
This would mean the bonus would have trigger 4-5 times, restoring 8-10% base mana.

Going to our Holy Priest, he seems to used Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal all together 20 times.
This would restore 120% base mana. (If not overlapping each other)

Then our Restoration Shaman, his riptide ticked 305 times over the whole fight.
This means his set bonus triggered 122 times, restoring 122% base mana.

Last our Restoration Druid, his lifebloom ticked 404 times over the whole fight.
this means his set bonus triggered 161 or 162 times, restoring 161%-162% base mana.

TL;DR:

Maloriak 25HM - 10 Min Fight

2P T12 compared:
Paladin - Restored 8-10% base mana
Priest - Restored 120% base mana
Shaman - Restored 122% base mana
Druid - Restored 161-162% base mana

Conclusion:

Our 2P tier bonus sucks and needs to be buffed or the rest is simply overpowered compared to ours.

Possible Fix:

Your Holy Shock has a 40% chance to restore 4% of your base mana.

Depending on how many times you use Holy Shock this could potentially restore up to 160% base mana over a 10 min. However this is unlikely since overlapping with out GCD, so this brings us around Shaman/Priest while still falling under Druid.

So, based on that synopsis, the only reason that we'd need a nerf based on T12 set bonuses would be that we already have more mana efficiency than the other healers (to a major degree).

To be honest, I don't play Holy, so I can't offer firsthand experience on that front. But I don't see much in the way of QQ over Holy Paladin mana efficience (which I'm sure there would be at least some if there was an advantage), so I don't think that's the case.

[MugenNoKaze]

I think its already one of the biggest challenge healing as a pally...
Im already having problem with my mana :S
i might go back to leveling my druid for some resto action

im not even talking about pvp.....

[Hendrixstorm]

I thought the cost of Divine light was 33% on live? Didn't it release at 30% and go to 33% after the mana nerf?

[Deleted]

OP here, as i think this will go on live and we once again might be reduced to tank healer only, might not this patch but i think it will come, i have fired up my old druid and finally try out resto healing.

Hope i doesn't have to go all the way and make it my new main because i love my holy pala...

[Deleted]

Well, it's a nerf yes, but u have to think about the new patch gear, every gear piece gives 300+int, up from 140/60int on the actual gear so...i think we won't feel any change
It's true that while we dont get that gear our mana will be........................................u know where...........................................haha but...that's what blizzard wants lol.

[SuperomegaOP]

Holy Paladin PVP is just getting worse and worse...

/respec retri

LOL RET....

go prot....

[Dakia]

A new response, with more extrapolation and math (from someone who isn't me)!



So, based on that synopsis, the only reason that we'd need a nerf based on T12 set bonuses would be that we already have more mana efficiency than the other healers (to a major degree).

To be honest, I don't play Holy, so I can't offer firsthand experience on that front. But I don't see much in the way of QQ over Holy Paladin mana efficience (which I'm sure there would be at least some if there was an advantage), so I don't think that's the case.

Ah, well I guess I wasn't thinking about it in the context of an entire fight.

/slaps wrist

Bad me for taking numbers at face value.

-----

Yeah, I'm Prot more often than anything else. I do fill in as Holy on a few fights since I have a decently geared holy spec and then another DPS plate goes tank.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by ALCH3MIST View Post
Hmm, let's compare all the healing 2P T12 sets.

Holy Paladin:
Casting Flash of Light, Holy Light, or Divine Light on your Beacon of Light target has a 40% chance to grant you 2% of your base mana.

Holy/Discipline Priest:
Your Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal spells cause you to regenerate 2% of your base mana every 5 sec for 15 sec.

Restoration Shaman:
Your periodic healing from Riptide has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

Restoration Druid:
Your periodic healing from Lifebloom has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.

With that information let's see in my last log (Maloriak 25H) how those set bonuses are used.

I seem (Holy Paladin) to have healed my beacon 8 times with Divine Light,4 times with Holy Light and 0 times with Flash of Light
This would mean the bonus would have trigger 4-5 times, restoring 8-10% base mana.

Going to our Holy Priest, he seems to used Flash Heal, Heal, and Greater Heal all together 20 times.
This would restore 120% base mana. (If not overlapping each other)

Then our Restoration Shaman, his riptide ticked 305 times over the whole fight.
This means his set bonus triggered 122 times, restoring 122% base mana.

Last our Restoration Druid, his lifebloom ticked 404 times over the whole fight.
this means his set bonus triggered 161 or 162 times, restoring 161%-162% base mana.

TL;DR:

Maloriak 25HM - 10 Min Fight

2P T12 compared:
Paladin - Restored 8-10% base mana
Priest - Restored 120% base mana
Shaman - Restored 122% base mana
Druid - Restored 161-162% base mana

Conclusion:

Our 2P tier bonus sucks and needs to be buffed or the rest is simply overpowered compared to ours.

Possible Fix:

Your Holy Shock has a 40% chance to restore 4% of your base mana.

Depending on how many times you use Holy Shock this could potentially restore up to 160% base mana over a 10 min. However this is unlikely since overlapping with out GCD, so this brings us around Shaman/Priest while still falling under Druid.

/sign
it ist just unfair to let this healer be bound on one target to get mana back, while the other healers can pretty much just heal however they want and get even more mana back than the paladin. sometimes the creativity of the designers just doesn't make any sense!

[Nillo]

I thought the cost of Divine light was 33% on live? Didn't it release at 30% and go to 33% after the mana nerf?

33% was never released. The only thing that got live was the HL cost increase.

[Hendrixstorm]

How curious. I wonder what the reasoning behind this is.

[Jetadin]

We holeh Palleh are amazin, and any nurf won't change how much i try to keep everyone alive, using everything i have.

Blizzards are smart and know wut their doin.