Why can't Blizzard Fix Hunters...when the issues have been known for YEARS?

[Romobama]

Survival is over 3-5K behind MM on non-aoe fights.

And MS is getting put back to its normal damage...because they learned fast they can't blanket buff MS with a talent attached to it. Everyone told them that...PTR told them that...and they still did it anyway.

being a MM hunter for pve (since way-way back when MM was just the pvp spec and was only brought for the ap buff), I do not want blizz to touch survival at all. I'm still sick from every huntard using survival and then bitching at me for my lack of dps cause they freaking crit 10x more with more things with high damage yield to crit with (like back in the beginning of wrath). I don't want my hunter class going back to the way we used to be or the way rogues currently are ('Mute spec is the dps spec of rogues.... any other spec should be sheered off their tree' as spoken from on of my guildies)

in pvp, I go BM... more cc's, more chances to get far enough away, more chances to kill stuff.

[Hypez]

Oh really. And here I thought Traps, Wing Clip, Deterrence, Disengage, Scatter Shot, Master's Call were all tools you could use. Silly me.



Because apparently if casters lose time when hit and melees can't do damage while kited, you should be able to nuke people regardless of the distance? Balanced, how could I not see that.



Neither do warriors, to mention one. Worse, if you take bleedings or magic effects, in which case way over half the specs can't do shit.



Funny, I thought you could pick up Spirit Bond or Chimera Shot. Or both.


I won't argue the rest, you do have your reasons. But if you mix them with senseless QQ, you won't get much sympathy. Let alone credit.

See, I was gonna reply. Then I saw this, and my job was done.....ty, ty. I've been playing my hunter, through thick and thin since around July 04. Hunters are in the best they've been since vanilla release. Please, for the sake of all other hunters out there, TAKE A HARD LOOK AT YOUR SKILLS BEFORE SPOUTING OFF GARBAGE!!!! some of us are really happy.
bee tee dubs, totally on the pooper right now. guts gurgling like old faithful is about to blow.
That is all

[lurialus]

I've been pvp'ing pretty solidly on my hunter since vanilla, and the short version is that arena's will never suit hunters no matter what buffs we get. We can be effective, don't get me wrong, kfc is a good example there, but with the cramped space and the multiple oppurtunities we will always be at a disadvantage.
Regarding statement 1. If you think that hunters dont have spells to piss melee off you havnt looked at your spell book. If anything we have too many, some should be cut and the ones that arent cut should be buffed to compensate.

Regarding Statement 2. Blizz once floated the idea of hunters having a melee ranged wep like a pistol which enabled us to use our ranged abilities in melee but at reduced damage i.e. 50%. I think this would, for the most part, fix the problems hunters have with our dead zone.

Regarding Statement 4. As pretty much the only viable pvp spec atm is mm, we have a 5-6k heal every 9-10 sec. In my honest opinion this is how every self heal should function, an added bonus but not a game changing mechanic, namely the unholy dk/fury war self heal. Healers specced in healing should obviously be disregarded to this.

and finally, regarding statements 5, 6, 7. Sv aoe is still one of the highest of any class/spec, and while it may be at the cost of slightly lower single target dps compared to mm/bm, I like this. It means that there is variation in the specs, and you can choose your spec based on what suits your raid the best. With Aimed shot i dont know why you are complaining, it hits like a truck, and the long cast is there for a reason, so you cant spam it the entire fight.

Hunters in pve are fine where they are. In pvp, arena's will never suit us, but we are very useful in bg's. As blizz are force feeding rbg's on us in 4.2 this is something to consider.

[johnnyarr]

I didn't read the 3 pages after the OP, so forgive me if someone said it, but AI is garbage? Obviously you don't hardcast it with RF during CA phase. It brings a tear to my eye

[Focault]

MMs multi-shot is no where near as good as a Survivals Serpent Spread...and will never be. Dotting a mass number of mobs = insane dps. We have a survival hunter in our guild who is currently what i call cheesing his way into top ranks using Survival multishot. Because he can...i mean its not doing much for the overall raid downing the boss but its showing the insane dps output of Serpent Spread since t he patch which is why its getting nerfed the issue is this will kill MM hunters AoE again.

This is why we need a stand alone AoE that has no Talent attached to it that can be used on multiple specs...Volley was good for this...why they removed it I will never know.

This is totally wrong Crucifer. Now I'm not saying your survival hunter isn't doing great damage because of course the multi-shot buff is helping him, but with all of the damage front-loaded and MM getting a 50% focus return on any crit and the nature of 2x rapid fire focus regen, MM does significantly more AoE dps than survival now and all the numbers bear that out too. There are several posts on the math of it if you wanted to look them up.

[Deepfriedegg]

Let me clarify a few things:

2. Chimera as a self heal? Thats laughable...every 10 seconds you get 4,000 hp on a crit!

Stop lying. Chimera Shot heals you for 5% of your current health. If it crits for you for 4000 then you have 53K HP. You have 53K HP at lvl 81 in questing greens.
In my 357 avg ilvl, I have 125K HP and it heals for 6250 and crits for 9380. And you can glyph it and have it each 9 seconds which makes it 11% better

5. No good MM hunter hard-casts aimedshots...if they are hard-casting they are not a good hunter. At all. No one hard casts AI in PvP or PvE...if they are i'd be really surprised...if the Proc talent didn't exist no one would use the spell that is why its Garbage. It's a horrible horrible spell at the moment.

Best parses on heroic Chimaeron:
best parse
second best
third best
All those baddies are doing over 30K and guess what, they use hard-cast Aimed shot.

I meant 1.7s with talents/hastes instead of the current 2.2s with Pathing/other pieces of haste benefits. For it to be remotely viable to cast.

It is already at 2.22 seconds without ANY haste gear, just with Pathing, haste buff and ISS.
It is at 2.02 s with 10% haste on gear
It is at 1.55 s with Heroism
It is at 1.44 s with Rapid Fire
It is at 1.25 s with glyphed Rapid Fire
You dont know what are you talking about.

Mages and Rogues still have the BEST AoE in the game

Yeah, somebody has to be best. The point is, you said hunters have worst AoE. Which is lie.

[Focault]

Like there was ever any doubt that Crucifer didn't know what he was talking about.

[nikat]

As a person that just did arena's last night, I have to hate the state of hunters in arenas. Yes I was only doing 2v2's because that is what is available in our guild. When I am an above average player playing with another above average player and we lost 17 games while winning 9, that is just unacceptable. Oh by the way, did I mention that half of our wins were against other teams with a hunter in them and we killed their hunter first?

I would not be pvp'ing if I was not going for achievements and going for those achievements makes me want to kill kittens at times.

Granted I have no clue what rating your playing at, but how do you define yourself as an above average player?

A lot depends on team synergy in 2's, not to mention some classes/comps are just dumb in 2's, there are any number of reasons for doing poorly in arena, if you are sub 1500 going that though, chances are either you or your partner are just under geared, or below average arena players.

[Crucifer05]

Stop lying. Chimera Shot heals you for 5% of your current health. If it crits for you for 4000 then you have 53K HP. You have 53K HP at lvl 81 in questing greens.
In my 357 avg ilvl, I have 125K HP and it heals for 6250 and crits for 9380. And you can glyph it and have it each 9 seconds which makes it 11% better



Best parses on heroic Chimaeron:
best parse
second best
third best
All those baddies are doing over 30K and guess what, they use hard-cast Aimed shot.


It is already at 2.22 seconds without ANY haste gear, just with Pathing, haste buff and ISS.
It is at 2.02 s with 10% haste on gear
It is at 1.55 s with Heroism
It is at 1.44 s with Rapid Fire
It is at 1.25 s with glyphed Rapid Fire
You dont know what are you talking about.


Yeah, somebody has to be best. The point is, you said hunters have worst AoE. Which is lie.

A lot to address here -

Chimera Shot mitigates 1-2 ticks of a dot...its a terrible self heal...compare it to a rogue...just try. Its laughable.

Those guys are hard-casting because in their guilds they are all pulling 30Kdps meaning that spread out Haste effects by the time they have to switch to using Standard phase rotations the boss is in Kill shot range. Let me try to explain this to you since you might be too retarded to know how guilds get top ranks on fights:

When you get to a certain gear level you can in fact void all mechanics and just blow through bosses by spreading out haste buffs...So lets say a 4min chimeron fight:

Pre-pot/Lust...
Rapid Fire
Readiness Rapid-Fire
If troll Racial

You can spread out your range of Hard-casting for a solid 1:45-2min. Then peel down from 48K from there which will slowly bring you down to 30K...if his guild was doing supar 24K numbers hed of fallen to 25-26K and not of ranked.

A great example of this is Vodkas Argaloth run...where they took 2 tanks and 23DPS no heals...and killed him in 1min 41 seconds never leaving Haste effects.

MAybe its you who needs lesson in how dps ranks get done.

You can get AI to .99sec if you go full haste effects. But i mean it should be a static 1.7 all the time from normal effects.

[satori sartori]

Only thing I agree is healing for hunters, seriously the chimera shot heals as hard as some dots tick per second.
Besides that everything else is a "QQ I'm bad buff me please" stuff, Aimed shot beign garbage... adorable.

[Bassch]

1. I kinda agree here that our abilities for getting out of Melee can be countered easily, but paired up, we can get away from a lot of classes.

2. I believe that Blizz said in some Blue Post or Q&A that they were talking about that.

3. We don't need a cloak ability at all. It's unnecessary. The only classes that have them are Rogues, Mages and Pallys. The other classes do fine without a cloak spell.

4. Spirit Bond and Chimera shot wants to say hi. We do have self heals, but they aren't the greatest. Chimera Shot gives me back like 10k HP on a crit. I believe that the new crit heal system will make that increase. I would like to see "Lick Your Wounds" for Pets to give like, 15% of the healing done to the pet to the Hunter.

5. Multi Shot is quite good now. Rain of Fire(Warlocks) is actually quite worse than Multi Shot from watching my brother. Multi Shot may need a bit of a nerf indeed, but not too much.

6. I can admit that Survival was nerfed, but it wasn't over nerfed. I know Survival Hunters that can out DPS quite a chunk of players actually.

7. Aimed Shot is good. If I'm correct, Aimed Shot is hardcast from 100%-80% HP. May also be casted to burn Focus on lower percentages. I don't play MM regularly enough to know.

[Deepfriedegg]

A lot to address here -

Chimera Shot mitigates 1-2 ticks of a dot...its a terrible self heal...compare it to a rogue...just try. Its laughable.

Those guys are hard-casting because in their guilds they are all pulling 30Kdps meaning that spread out Haste effects by the time they have to switch to using Standard phase rotations the boss is in Kill shot range. Let me try to explain this to you since you might be too retarded to know how guilds get top ranks on fights:

When you get to a certain gear level you can in fact void all mechanics and just blow through bosses by spreading out haste buffs...So lets say a 4min chimeron fight:

Pre-pot/Lust...
Rapid Fire
Readiness Rapid-Fire
If troll Racial

You can spread out your range of Hard-casting for a solid 1:45-2min. Then peel down from 48K from there which will slowly bring you down to 30K...if his guild was doing supar 24K numbers hed of fallen to 25-26K and not of ranked.

A great example of this is Vodkas Argaloth run...where they took 2 tanks and 23DPS no heals...and killed him in 1min 41 seconds never leaving Haste effects.

MAybe its you who needs lesson in how dps ranks get done.

You can get AI to .99sec if you go full haste effects. But i mean it should be a static 1.7 all the time from normal effects.

just Really:
1. You said Chimera heal crits for 4K. I said that is a lie. And it is a lie unles you have 50K HP. Period

2. If you, instead of poorly attempting to teach me how to make best parse, would actually took a look at those parses, then:
I) it would take you a lot less time
II) you would see that those are not overgeared Argaloth fights but Heroic Chimaeron
III) you would see that the listed fights took 5-6 minutes
IV) in all parses most DPS were people doing "subpar" 24K and even less. Heck, there were even DPS doing under 20K...
Where is your bright explanation now?

3. You said a good hunter would never use hard-cast Aimed. Now you are explaining why those good hunter are using it. Sort your stuff, please

4. Fight that takes 1:41 secs and you never leave haste effect?
Even IF Hero/BL would come after 30 seconds of RF/Readiness/RF, there still would be 2:05 min remaining on Rapid Fire cooldown after end of Hero/BL.
Nice theorycrafting...

6. Hunters NEVER want to stack haste effect, the more haste buffs they have, the less the additional benefits of another haste buff is

7. Yes, YES!!! Please, teach me another lesson! I desperately want to laugh!!!

[Shockzilla]

For god’s sake quit feeding the guy, he is consistently contradicting himself. There is nothing grossly wrong with hunter right now, hell they are in a good place. It sounds to me that you have an issue with rouges kicking your ass, tuff, get better or keep spending your time in the grave yard rezzing.

I am glad to see the other hunters standing up and saying he’s wrong instead of joining the whine wagon.

[Deepfriedegg]

For god’s sake quit feeding the guy, he is consistently contradicting himself. There is nothing grossly wrong with hunter right now, hell they are in a good place. It sounds to me that you have an issue with rouges kicking your ass, tuff, get better or keep spending your time in the grave yard rezzing.

I am glad to see the other hunters standing up and saying he’s wrong instead of joining the whine wagon.

I am feeding him because I am really enjoying the laugh he is providing me with
My secret hope is that he actually might have learnt something. But it really doesnt look like he has...