2012 Republican Candidates

[Tigercat]

I personally do not associate myself with either the republicans or the democrats (Which now are just republican and republican-lite) but I do kinda find it funny how the biggest contributors to the party are the religious when you are supposed to keep your religious views out of politics for the good of the people (Which unfortunately doesn't happen)

If you really see some of the shit that goes on with the democratic party as "republican-lite" then I think your standards are a bit....off. You'd be better off finding a time machine to go back a few decades, and a ticket to russia.

[kunah]

First, Ron Paul is a nut. I used to favor the guy, but if you can still take him seriously, I can't take you seriously. He's not presidential material, I don't care what your stance is on economic or social matters. Anyone who can keep a straight face while suggesting that we return to a gold standard should politely exit stage left and retire from a life of politics. Short-sighted libertarian idealism is no substitute for creativity and economic innovation.

Trump's just a joke.

Romney would be great -- if he didn't feel so strongly about imposing his "value-oriented" social policies on Americans - this is the antithesis of true conservativism. Rick Santorum falls into this category as well, though I feel he takes his radical ideals far more seriously.

Huckabee and Pawlenty are nothing but shills. Gingrich too.

Michelle Bachmann is a Tea Party[tm] product: packaged, branded, sold off the shelf by Koch Industries, Inc.

So I ask the GOP: Where are the real conservatives? Where's the guy that's going to cut spending and keep government out of my life? Where's the guy that's going to stop harping on Bible-thumper issues like stopping the Evil Gays from marrying or "getting tough" on marijuana? Where's the guy that's going to scale back our global military deployments and isn't afraid to hit the defense budget with the same nerf-bat as every other budget? Where's the guy that's going to look for interesting solutions to our economic woes, rather than clinging to one-size-fits-all maxims like "raise taxes" or "cut programs" or "trickle-down economics" or "end the Fed?"

Where's the sanity?

Same question applies to the Democratic party. As of now, it looks like I'm voting for Obama in 2012.

Where's the sanity?

There isn't any right now. I think cooler GOP heads will prevail and they will put aside thier differiences and get behind someone who can actually win. If they don't,, Obama will win again and thats ok with me.

[Fugus]

No where does it say you are supposed to keep your religious views out of politics. There is an amendment establishing a freedom of religion. Some people seem to misread that as freedom FROM religion, which is wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their own religious views but though views are not supposed to be pushed on others through force of law which is what I was getting at and having your biggest supporters trying to do just that does impose plenty of problems.

My personal opinion is that if you can't keep your religious views out of your politics, you have no place in politics and if whatever deity(s) you pray to have any problem with that, let them come and speak on their own behalf and leave the middlemen out. We should not have do deal with laws that exists to appease religious groups regardless of who they are or how much cash they have.

[Fuzzzie]

Try to keep religion out of the topic guys. Stick with the OP.

[Purple Glow]

Sure Germany had socialized health care for decades thanks to the USSR. What happened to the USSR? They went bankrupt.

[critzkreig]

How did he eliminate such a talking point? Did something happen to prevent AQ from ever attacking the US again?

We elected a Democrat. We have not been successfully attacked (we've stopped major attacks, and shot Osama in the eye), almost completely debunking the theory that a Democratic president would be weak on national security. Troop increase in Afghanistan, missile strikes globally, etc.

[Tigercat]

Everyone is entitled to their own religious views but though views are not supposed to be pushed on others through force of law which is what I was getting at and having your biggest supporters trying to do just that does impose plenty of problems.

My personal opinion is that if you can't keep your religious views out of your politics, you have no place in politics and if whatever deity(s) you pray to have any problem with that, let them come and speak on their own behalf and leave the middlemen out. We should not have do deal with laws that exists to appease a religious groups regardless of who they are or how much cash they have.

While at the same time laws should not be passed for the purpose of forcing religious groups to do things they do not want(gay marriage forcing churches to participate in something in which they do not approve, go with civil unions instead).

Edit: Bah, Fuzzzie beat me to it, disregard.

[Fugus]

If you really see some of the shit that goes on with the democratic party as "republican-lite" then I think your standards are a bit....off. You'd be better off finding a time machine to go back a few decades, and a ticket to russia.

There is no true left wing political party in America anymore.
Democrats are Center to Moderate Right.
Republicans are Moderate Right to Extreme Right on the international scale.

Hence why I called them Republican and Republican-Lite.

[videotape]

No where does it say you are supposed to keep your religious views out of politics. There is an amendment establishing a freedom of religion. Some people seem to misread that as freedom FROM religion, which is wrong.

This is not an entirely accurate statement and does not address the issue. Freedom from religion is absolutely guaranteed by the Constitution, insofar as is suggested by the statement:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Freedom of and from.

While there is no guarantee or requirement that representatives do not base their legislation and/or votes on their own religious values, it would be reasonable to suggest that a law which exists solely on the basis of religious argument does to some extent "respect an establishment of religion." Despite this, case law in the U.S. unfortunately (for the secular humanists among us) suggests otherwise.

Admittedly, the language of the Constitution is, like anything, somewhat ambiguous and open to a broad range of interpretations. Our interpretations to-date have favored the rise of the Christian theocracy among our conservative voters. This is unfortunate for conservative atheists, because it puts us in a very tight spot. It's also unfortunate for the GOP, because they would more often have my vote if they stopped trying to control my lifestyle and started focusing more on long-term economic stability.

[Zamfix]

God forbid people have access to basic healthcare...

---------- Post added 2011-05-11 at 05:33 PM ----------

This is not an entirely accurate statement and does not address the issue. Freedom from religion is absolutely guaranteed by the Constitution, insofar as is suggested by the statement:



Freedom of and from.

While there is no guarantee or requirement that representatives do not base their legislation and/or votes on their own religious values, it would be reasonable to suggest that a law which exists solely on the basis of religious argument does to some extent "respect an establishment of religion." Despite this, case law in the U.S. unfortunately (for the secular humanists among us) suggests otherwise.

Admittedly, the language of the Constitution is, like anything, somewhat ambiguous and open to a broad range of interpretations. Our interpretations to-date have favored the rise of the Christian theocracy among our conservative voters. This is unfortunate for conservative atheists, because it puts us in a very tight spot. It's also unfortunate for the GOP, because they would more often have my vote if they stopped trying to control my lifestyle and started focusing more on long-term economic stability.

GOP: Small government, except in your bedroom.

[grimsanta]

First of all, @ Purplegrowth, what's your big problem with the health insurance bill? The idea that this bill was a leftist piece of legislation is completely false. It mandates that people buy health insurance because we all use healthcare at some point, and the risk to hospitals balance sheets when people come in uninsured is huge. It often results in the hospital having to write it off, which increases costs for everyone else, and the person who got sick going bankrupt. So mandating people to take responsibility to pay for their health care, as opposed to having the hospital writing it off, is ok by me. Also, this is basically what the republicans proposed in 1994. The idea that Obama passed this on strictly partisan grounds is false too. To pass it, he had to get people like Ben Nelson, Baucus, and Leiberman to vote for it, who wanted a much more moderate bill than what was initially proposed by the senators on the left.

I don't know a single person on the left who is pleased with the bill, but it is FAR better than the status quo.

The health insurance bill was not a health care bill, but mearly insurance reform. If it wasn't for the federal government and they're "horrible controlling opressive" laws, my brother would be dead right now, as he had to quit his job from a heart condition, and the only reason that he was able to continue his insurance coverage was from federally subsidized COBRA, which had an additional subsidy from the stimulus, and additional regulation (protection) added in the health care bill. He received a heart transplant because of these peices of legislation.

The fact that we have businesses paying for our health care is where the problem is. It is in the insurance companies interest not to pay, and to drop coverage. And if you think that the free market would kick those who drop patients out? You're smoking something, because it's been this way for 70 years. In the 80s, getting sick was roughly 8% of bankrupcies. Now it's over 50% of personal bankrupcy. Even with insurance, and good insurance at that, my parents and brother have declared bankrupcy because of my brother's heart transplant. And they make a combined $150,000 a year and had over $200k in savings. So yeah, screw the insurers. Get government out of healthcare? Well that's why he's alive in the first place.

Research please, name one country with a free market healthcare system (there are plenty) who has a high life expectancy and low health care costs (there are none). Name a country who has a socialized healthcare system, with high life expectancy and low healthcare costs, and I can name plenty.

Sweden
Netherlands
France
Spain
Chili
England
Germany

So there ya go, have fun being blind.

Oh, and the GOP nominees are nutty, cept for Romney, who will go far right to try to win the nomination. Huntsman would be ok too. As a liberal though, i won't vote for them, but the presidency is more about management than policy. Policy comes more from congress anyways.

---------- Post added 2011-05-11 at 12:44 PM ----------

Oh, and sorry Purplegrowth, but the facts have a liberal bias.

http://user.cloudfront.goodinc.com/c...70c-800wi.jpeg

And that includes the public money too. The idea that any country is going to go bankrupt off of social spending on healthcare is blasphamy.

[Bacon Grease]

While at the same time laws should not be passed for the purpose of forcing religious groups to do things they do not want(gay marriage forcing churches to participate in something in which they do not approve, go with civil unions instead).

Edit: Bah, Fuzzzie beat me to it, disregard.

You can get married outside of a church btw.

[Sunseeker]

Just out of curiosity... Who would YOU say is your favorite Republican candidate for the upcoming 2012 elections and why? Please do your best to refrain from excessive trolling. Some of the POTENTIAL candidates include Herman Cain, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty, Donald Trump, Mike Huckabee, and Chris Christie. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions!

I will not vote for Herman Cain.
I will not vote for Mitt Romney.
Tim Pawlenty seems like a reasonable guy, but he seems too reasonable to be president.
Donald Trump will not be elected, and it would be disastrous if he was.
I will vote for Huckabee over Obama any day of the week. It's unlikely he'll be running though from what I've heard.
Chris Christie has announced that he will not be running.

The list of potential republican candidates is short even if you include the radicals. Without them, the list of potentials can be counted on one hand and still have some fingers left over.

[Wells]

Hasn't been 70 years. Its been, depending on how you view it, less than 20 or hasn't even started yet. When you are a subsidized nation, like Germany was for decades under the USSR / USA, the normal rules of economics no longer apply. You can't point to their economic model as a sound one.

You misread. Britain started the NHS after world war 2. Its been extremely successful for close to 70 years. If a lifetime isn't enough time to determine whether a program works then you're either being dishonest or dense.

[kunah]

I will not vote for Herman Cain.
I will not vote for Mitt Romney.
Tim Pawlenty seems like a reasonable guy, but he seems too reasonable to be president.
Donald Trump will not be elected, and it would be disastrous if he was.
I will vote for Huckabee over Obama any day of the week. It's unlikely he'll be running though from what I've heard.
Chris Christie has announced that he will not be running.

The list of potential republican candidates is short even if you include the radicals. Without them, the list of potentials can be counted on one hand and still have some fingers left over.

Huckabee DQ'ed himself as a serious candidate when he went down that race-baiting birther road on Bryan Fisher's radio show. Mau-Mau, growing up in Kenya, anti-British colonial mindset, attended Madrassas,etc. Its just nutz and people dont like to hear that clap-trap. Don't know what he was thinking because he always seemed kind of reasonable relative to other GOPers.

[Amerrack]

No where does it say you are supposed to keep your religious views out of politics. There is an amendment establishing a freedom of religion. Some people seem to misread that as freedom FROM religion, which is wrong.

The amendment is there so the people are free to worship as they please. The US doesnt have a "state religion". And i for one don't want religion in my government. Secular governments run far better than religious ones.

Sorry about the response. Didn't see the mod post until after i posted.

[Wells]

But yeah, unless Romney gets the nomination I see Obama winning reelection in a walk.

And even with Romney I don't think the GOP has much of a shot.

[Sunseeker]

Huckabee DQ'ed himself as a serious candidate when he went down that race-baiting birther road on Bryan Fisher's radio show. Mau-Mau, growing up in Kenya, anti-British colonial mindset, attended Madrassas,etc. Its just nutz and people dont like to hear that crap-trap. Don't know what he was thinking because he always seemed kind of reasonable relative to other GOPers.

Yeah I read about that shortly after the post, it's very unfortunate, I still largely agree with him on most of his political and social ideas.

I really do hope the Republicans can pull out a SERIOUS candidate. I don't want this to be a cakewalk for Obama and I really want to have a good contest between two different and qualified people.

[Wells]

I've never known Huckabee to take any positions outside what is more or less the standard GOP line.

[Deathcries]

Somewhat. The US does identify slightly more as conservative, but when polled on individual issues we're moderate to moderate left.

Negative, Stop watching MSNBC. Herman Cain should win. Dude so far is looking great to me.

Note: I hate Romney dude is like bush/obama. To be honest I see Bush and Obama as the same. Bush pushed alot of leftist ideas, and Obama is continuing that full force. Show me a real conservative who would actually support TARP? Bush a conservative, Pfft you guys don't know what a real conservative is.