View Poll Results: Do you think the Acid in the eyes punishment is right?

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  • Yes

    506 64.54%
  • No

    278 35.46%
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  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dald View Post



    Unless he dies in jail, it's useless punishment. Then again, jail over there may include torture (maybe not direct).
    Why is everybody wanting him to get hurt, HOW would you like having to spend the rest of your life in jail? i would just aswell die as have any chance of "living" away, seriously that's the worst thing I can see happening but every person got he's/her's own thoughts.

  2. #882
    The Patient Eloona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    And so because the world is full of bad people, we need to compound the problem by doing bad things as well?
    Do you not see how this approach is self-defeating?
    So what's your solution to the problem?

  3. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    One "minor" flaw with your logic: mentally unstable people do not give a shit about the golden rule. But this has been pointed out many times before, I don't know what good it'll do this time. Someone else is bound to bring up the exact same argument as you did soon enough.
    easy enough. kill them. the less criminally violent mentally disturbed people we have in this world, the better it is for the rest of us, and maybe threads like this will never have a reason to be created in the first place.

    sadly, people still love guys like charlie manson and think that even he deserves to live. the kicker is good, because given the first oppurtunity, he'd probably cut your throat and laugh at you as you lay there dying thinking to yourself "poor guy doesn't understand what he just did to me, so maybe some more rehab is in order... ACK!"
    He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. --Albert Einstein

  4. #884
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloona View Post
    And your method would work if the world was full of good people.
    "His method" is what civilized societies do, it was decided that was the best way to deal with it after getting out of the dark ages.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    What does that say about you as a person? That you'd steal something if the consequences were minor enough?

    That's terrible.
    Not at all. To stay on the point, if the consequences were already dire I would think there would be less crimes going on.

  6. #886
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Sure, let's completely validate his method by doing it ourselves as the supposedly morally superior party. GG.
    "The truth, my goal."

  7. #887
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloona View Post
    So what's your solution to the problem?
    I don't claim to have one. I just know that this isn't it.
    Given the options of a) disfiguring this man as revenge, or b) letting him think about what he's done in prison, I would choose b.

    It's not a perfect solution, and I won't pretend for a second that it is. Burning him with acid won't un-burn the person that he burned, though. If it did, then it might be fair. But the world doesn't work that way.

  8. #888
    The Patient Eloona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    "His method" is what civilized societies do, it was decided that was the best way to deal with it after getting out of the dark ages.
    So how would you go about enforcing "his method"? Not all people think "Don't do something because it is wrong" as much as I wish that they did....

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-14 at 08:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I don't claim to have one. I just know that this isn't it.
    Given the options of a) disfiguring this man as revenge, or b) letting him think about what he's done in prison, I would choose b.

    It's not a perfect solution, and I won't pretend for a second that it is. Burning him with acid won't un-burn the person that he burned, though. If it did, then it might be fair. But the world doesn't work that way.
    So you would rather tax dollars be paid to feed, shelter and cloth a man that did someone wrongly? I hardly believe that is a punishment.

  9. #889
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBT View Post
    Not at all. To stay on the point, if the consequences were already dire I would think there would be less crimes going on.
    Then why are there so many murders in death penalty states?

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    I don't know how that idea came to be. In most eastern countries, Justice is bringing balance. It has nothing to do with lessening sufferring. How the hell Justice lessens suffering?

    Justice is a medium to bring order through balance. No more and no less. so that the victim can't accuse the law for favoring the criminal, while the criminal does not accuse the law of favoring the victim. if they do that, laws becomes unjust.
    The question I pose isn't what justice is, but how we achive it. You say that justice is a way to bring order through balance. How do we get that balance? Do we give a man decades of jail time for committing a murder, do we kill him, or do we do something else? I want the system to work, but not in a way that causes more pain, even if it does bring balance. I don't believe the world should work that way.

  11. #891
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by prankstar View Post
    it has nothing to do with me or my family so i really couldnt care less
    This post is probably the single best one yet in this thread. QFT
    What? Why? When? Who? Which? How? Wait...
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    Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn! The thick plottens.

  12. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Monsters aren't real, bud. Honest.
    Even really really really really bad people, like Hitler, were little babies at one time, and were someone's child.
    It's okay to hate someone like that. But to dehumanize them, call them a monster, so that we can feel better about killing/maiming/torturing them?
    That makes us the real monster.
    But to not allow ourselves to do what is necessary to protect ourselves and society from such people because we're too worried about being inhumane is just as bad.

    I'm not sure I particularly like the reciprocal acid treatment, but imprisonment is also torture. Since that's the "default" punishment in the US, and I've heard few people say that imprisonment as a concept is immoral, that means that our legal system already endorses torture as an appropriate reaction to a violation of the law... the only question is how severe a torture we're willing to inflict.

    I think in the end I oppose this particular punishment for the same reason I oppose the death penalty: I believe that all punishments should be reversible, since there will always be cases where someone is wrongly convicted. You cannot know ahead of time which cases they will be, so I dislike any punishment that cannot be undone should new evidence be turned up. If the man is blinded by acid, he's never getting his sight back, so I oppose the punishment in this case.

    @Maklor: Yes, the legal system exists (at least in part) so that punishments for violating the law can be administered fairly and evenly, but that doesn't necessarily preclude the punishment in question. Yes, I do oppose it personally... but if it is the punishment proscribed by the law, and it is carried out after a trial that concluded the man in question was guilty of the act, then it's not some emotional backlash fueled by nothing but a desire for vengeance. It is a legal punishment, no different in that sense than sending a man to prison for stealing a car.

    @Atrea: Not finding fault with this particular punishment does not constitute approval of the Iranian Justice system in its entirety anymore than me liking WoW means I think every decision Blizzard makes is a good one.... and snide condescending comments implying that to be the case don't do much for your side. Human beings are perfectly capable of being monsters; the fact that we are all born innocent does not change that fact. We are born innocent... but the world changes us, and we change ourselves. There was a time in Hitler's life when he was an innocent person, guilty of nothing. By the end of his life, he had brought pain, suffering, and death to millions of people. I feel no remorse for the fact that he was killed anymore than I feel remorse for people in prison for crimes they committed (and given what people would have done to Hitler had they gotten their hands on him, death was probably a mercy for him).


    Yes, people can act out of a desire for vengeance, and vengeance does not equate to justice. But that does not mean that any punishment other than simple imprisonment is carried out for the sake of vengeance rather than justice, nor does it mean that you should be so afraid of being inhumane that you do not punish the guilty, or do what is necessary to protect society from their actions in the future.

    Then again, I also do not believe that international law should be binding on any actions that are not carried out on an international stage... every country has different laws, different customs. I may not approve of what China does, but they are a sovereign nation, and they have the right to enforce their own laws. There is also a very open question of what constitutes "basic human rights"... I know what I would say, but not everyone agrees. Whether you wish to admit it or not, considering a country to be uncivilized because they don't do what you think they should is simply attempting to enforce your morality and your way of thinking on others.... and the fact that people are so willing to do so is one of the reasons I believe WW3 is inevitable

  13. #893
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloona View Post
    So how would you go about enforcing "his method"? Not all people think "Don't do something because it is wrong" as much as I wish that they did....

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-14 at 08:20 PM ----------



    So you would rather tax dollars be paid to feed, shelter and cloth a man that did someone wrongly? I hardly believe that is a punishment.
    Do you think that, after his punishment is administered, he will be free to go?
    Do you think that a blind man will be able to lead a proper life, free of any sort of government or communal support?

    Either way, he's going to jail for awhile. He'll face enough adversity when he gets out - why ensure that the taxpayers would continue to support him?

  14. #894
    I absolutely believe he should. Firmly believe in eye-for-an-eye.

  15. #895
    The question was do I think the punishment is just and fair, not if i think it is right. I think it is more than just and fair, an eye for an eye is not just a Islamic belief, or for that matter a religious belief at all imo. Going beyond the question, do i think this is right? Yes, assuming he did this to this woman on purpose. Why should this woman now go through life blind, and probably disfigured by the acid, when this man goes through life, presumably in jail somewhere, with perfect eyesight and a perfectly normal face? The "eye for an eye" saying, if applied to more crimes would probably cut our crime rate in half. Who is going to do something violent when they know when they are caught the same will happen to them if they are convicted?

  16. #896
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    But to not allow ourselves to do what is necessary to protect ourselves and society from such people because we're too worried about being inhumane is just as bad.
    I appreciate the fact that you took a look at the subject objectively.
    My question to you is, what makes you think that doing such a thing to this man will 'protect' us from people like him?

    I think the second we stop worrying about being inhumane, is when we can all cash in on our 'monster membership club'.

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by sweepdeepsPL View Post
    An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
    This sums it all up nicely.

  18. #898
    Stood in the Fire Preliatus's Avatar
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    An eye for an eye?

  19. #899
    Administered by the lady herself OHH SHIT, cruel and unusual ! :L

    But yeah, do unto other's yada yada yada :P

  20. #900
    The Patient Eloona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Do you think that, after his punishment is administered, he will be free to go?
    Do you think that a blind man will be able to lead a proper life, free of any sort of government or communal support?

    Either way, he's going to jail for awhile. He'll face enough adversity when he gets out - why ensure that the taxpayers would continue to support him?
    I don't know if their government provides help for people who are disabled, so I can't answer your question properly.

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