Why do we all roll on enchanting?

[nilnar]

You're somewhat correct. I would like things to be one way or the other. Either give enchanters back their ability to choose to DE or allow everyone to do it. I'd be fine with either way as long as it's one or the other.....I just don't like that it's forced (and yes I will use the word forced because I leveled my enchanting up to 525....nobody else did....and the option to DE was given to me as an enchanter) upon the enchanter to do it. I want the option to choose to do it or allow everyone to. As it is now, is there really much of a difference than allowing everyone to do it?

I still don't get why you're so bothered. I don't mean offense, but it just sounds very OCDish.

---------- Post added 2011-05-24 at 04:06 PM ----------

Any POLITE person would tip the enchanter for DE'ing for them, but you don't do that either. It DOES cost the enchanter by giving people without the profession mats to put on the AH reducing our profit. We ALL want to profit off our profession. Jewelcrafters wouldn't want to prospect ore for free or Inscriptionists mill herbs.

Bottom line, you want enchanting mats for free, I want you to pay. It's my prof, I want to profit as much as possible from it.

No. People would not tip for disenchants at the end of an instance run. Nor would they often tip guild mates, as usually the enchanter would offer to do it for free.

No other profession gets its mats from the profession itsself (its either a different farming profession or looting stuff). Enchanting's produce is enchants.

[doot]

I have been quite annoyed about this for some time now. It has only come about now because of someone in trade chat yelling STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE. Why is enchanting the only profession where everyone in the group can roll on the disenchanting mats? Think about it for a second, remember Icehowl? Did everyone get to roll on the fur? How about the flower pickers in the Freya part of Ulduar? Everyone get to roll on the flowers? Did the miners in General Vezax give the option for everyone to roll on those mats? So why is it everyone can roll on the disenchanting mats?

I actually had to roll for the gems I got from a node once, but anyway. The reason Blizz did this is because people generally did this already, but the system they had going for the RFD would not allow for trading of items that were not from the dungeon and/or conjured. Or if you want it worded differently and better. The only items you can trade in RFD are the items that get a Timer on em.

[Paltarr]

Rolling for disenchants has been in the game for a long time now. Wanting to keep a good feature that benefits most people and doesn't harm anyone at all is not being greedy - no.

I don't understand why you're so bothered about this, when you're quite happy to give everyone the ability to disenchant anyway. Its just a very strange stance to take.

My stance on this is as I have mentioned. I am an enchanter. Along with my enchanting, I was given disenchanting. Granted it is an unbalanced profession as it doesn't require the second profession to get materials for it as other professions do. None-the-less it's a feature in game that I believe, doesn't make sense to keep. TBH I would rather blizz do away with it and allow everyone to do it. Who doesn't have an alt or a friend that would be willing to DE? So why keep it around? The part that annoys me is that it is there, it is a feature available from the enchanting profession. If Blizz is going to allow everyone to roll on DE mats, why is it there? So I suggest either get rid of it or give the option back to the enchanter.

[nilnar]

My stance on this is as I have mentioned. I am an enchanter. Along with my enchanting, I was given disenchanting. Granted it is an unbalanced profession as it doesn't require the second profession to get materials for it as other professions do. None-the-less it's a feature in game that I believe, doesn't make sense to keep. TBH I would rather blizz do away with it and allow everyone to do it. Who doesn't have an alt or a friend that would be willing to DE? So why keep it around? The part that annoys me is that it is there, it is a feature available from the enchanting profession. If Blizz is going to allow everyone to roll on DE mats, why is it there? So I suggest either get rid of it or give the option back to the enchanter.

Its good that you've at least changed stance from your unreasonable OP to now wanting everyone to be able to disenchant. Its such a minor change though, I doubt many could find it in themselves to care.

[Vaelyn]

Can you please tell me the difference in being able to select DE because there's an enchanter around, or if one isn't....sending the items to your friendly neighborhood enchanter/alt....vs.....everyone having the ability to DE?

---------- Post added 2011-05-24 at 02:51 PM ----------



....so....second suggestion that everyone seems to be ignoring.....get rid of DE all together and allow everyone to do it.


Also, when did I say anything about needing items just to DE them for myself?

You didn't acknowledge/answer my question though. Why would you want to choose not to DE for people? I'll acknowledge what you said about anyone can DE. I like that, but I don't think Blizzard will bring it around any time soon. It would make Enchanters less appreciated for sure which is unfortunate becuz in raids I lead, I always distributed Abyss Crystals equally but gave 1/2 extra to the DEer to thank them for doing it (I haven't led Cata raids.. just pugged them). But I am still curious why you would want to toggle off your ability to DE in a dungeon run. It seems selfish to me.

[Deleted]

Enchanting is a profession and just as any other profession in game, it's used as a way to make gold. It's been stated in this thread...I'll just get a guildy to DE the items and a guildy to enchant my items for free. That's great, get your guildy to do this for you, I do it for my guild. However, why should enchanters have to share their mats? Nobody can use the mats from disenchanting except an enchanter. Sure anyone can throw them on AH, but as far as use them....only enchanters. So enchanters not only have to compete for the mats the need, they have to compete with non-enchanters undercutting their prices. There is no other profession that shares it's green/blue/purple with anyone else in group.

This post is filled to the brim with fail and logical fallacies.
You do NOT have to compete for the mats, or did you think you would get every item to DE just like that. If people could not click "disenchant" they would click "greed". Nothing changes.

Secondly, non enchanters arent undercutting your prices. Because enchanters make their money by selling the enchants, if you do not do this, you are a fool, tool, dolt and a dunce. You are getting your mats cheaper while you are able to sell your enchants at the same price. Non enchanters arent undercutting you, it is enchanters that do that.

[Deleted]

I don't see why other people should make gold because I'm an enchanter. There shouldn't even be a disenchant roll. There should only be need and greed. I hate that they implemented the disenchant roll.

It's because of this the enchanting mats are so cheap. Most people wouldn't be arsed to look for someone to DE the greens for them. And they wouldn't be able to de blues or epics at all, which they shouldn't.

Sadly, Blizz will most likely never change this, so we just gotta live with it.

Non enchanters arent undercutting you, it is enchanters that do that.

You wouldn't know that.

5 friends of mine who aren't enchanters always insta-sell the mats they win on ah. If they ever need mats for enchants they will just buy them back later when they are cheaper anyways.

It's not fair that randoms passively benefit from your profession which you spent money on skilling. Anyone who disagrees is either not an enchanter or an idiot.

[Paltarr]

This post is filled to the brim with fail and logical fallacies.
You do NOT have to compete for the mats, or did you think you would get every item to DE just like that. If people could not click "disenchant" they would click "greed". Nothing changes.

Secondly, non enchanters arent undercutting your prices. Because enchanters make their money by selling the enchants, if you do not do this, you are a fool, tool, dolt and a dunce. You are getting your mats cheaper while you are able to sell your enchants at the same price. Non enchanters arent undercutting you, it is enchanters that do that.

...the thought of reading a full thread eludes some....

---------- Post added 2011-05-24 at 03:26 PM ----------

You didn't acknowledge/answer my question though. Why would you want to choose not to DE for people? I'll acknowledge what you said about anyone can DE. I like that, but I don't think Blizzard will bring it around any time soon. It would make Enchanters less appreciated for sure which is unfortunate becuz in raids I lead, I always distributed Abyss Crystals equally but gave 1/2 extra to the DEer to thank them for doing it (I haven't led Cata raids.. just pugged them). But I am still curious why you would want to toggle off your ability to DE in a dungeon run. It seems selfish to me.

I have answered this many times. It used to be an option for the enchanter. It is now not even an option. It is something that's automatic. This is the problem I have with DE. It's no longer a choice, it is now mandatory for the enchanter to offer DE to everything that drops in group. What's the point of having DE? Just let everyone have it already.

[nilnar]

I don't see why other people should make gold because I'm an enchanter. There shouldn't even be a disenchant roll. There should only be need and greed. I hate that they implemented the disenchant roll.

It's because of this the enchanting mats are so cheap. Most people wouldn't be arsed to look for someone to DE the greens for them. And they wouldn't be able to de blues or epics at all, which they shouldn't.

Sadly, Blizz will most likely never change this, so we just gotta live with it.



You wouldn't know that.

5 friends of mine who aren't enchanters always insta-sell the mats they win on ah. If they ever need mats for enchants they will just buy them back later when they are cheaper anyways.

It's not fair that randoms passively benefit from your profession which you spent money on skilling. Anyone who disagrees is either not an enchanter or an idiot.

Make disenchanting a separate primary gathering profession then, to make it comparable to every other crafting profession. Somehow I doubt your profits would rise. As it is right now, its more than fair for enchanters.

The fairest thing for everyone would be to give everyone the ability to disenchant, but as it is now there is no problem.

[Deleted]

5 friends of mine who aren't enchanters always insta-sell the mats they win on ah. If they ever need mats for enchants they will just buy them back later when they are cheaper anyways.

Cheaper mats which enchanters can benefit from to craft enchants to sell which they dictate the pricing on.

[Deleted]

Make disenchanting a separate primary gathering profession then, to make it comparable to every other crafting profession. Somehow I doubt your profits would rise. As it is right now, its more than fair for enchanters.

The fairest thing for everyone would be to give everyone the ability to disenchant, but as it is now there is no problem.

Let's make prospecting a gethering profession while you're at it.

[Solfire]

I still don't get why you're so bothered. I don't mean offense, but it just sounds very OCDish.

---------- Post added 2011-05-24 at 04:06 PM ----------



No. People would not tip for disenchants at the end of an instance run. Nor would they often tip guild mates, as usually the enchanter would offer to do it for free.

No other profession gets its mats from the profession itsself (its either a different farming profession or looting stuff). Enchanting's produce is enchants.

Wow you don't tip when guildies DE for you? but they're RUDE if they don't do it? Nice world you live in.. everyone who doesn't do something for free is greedy but you never giving back isn't.

[Porcell]

On my enchanters, I now NEED on every BoP item that I am capable of needing on in an instance. Consider it a charge for using my profession throughout the run.

I'm NOT talking about BoEs. I'm NOT talking about DEing stuff for guildies. I'm NOT talking about expecting all the gear to come to me. Anyone who brings this up is missing the point.

If I'm running Zx and there's no enchanter. Everyone greeds and gets to vendor epics for 20g. Now suddenly I'm an enchanter. Now everyone can DE and get a crystal worth 300g. They just made 280g off of MY profession. Can you see why I might have a problem with that? There's been runs where they all click DE, I click greed, and I don't end up winning anything over the whole run. So now my four "team mates" have changed 200g worth of 10 vendor epics into 3000g worth of 10 maelstrom crystals, all because of me, and I end up with nothing? How exactly is that fair.

So like I said, I just need on every item that I am capable of needing on. I am just ensuring that I get my cut of the artificial profits that _I_ am manufacturing.

[Note I'm not a total dick about it. If someone else actually needs the item I trade it to them. I'm just looking for my fair share, I'm not looking to take things that people actually need. I just feel that I should get a significant percentage of the extra gold that I am FORCED to generate for other people.]

[Trix]

People get to roll on the disenchanted mats because otherwise every non enchanter in the instance or raid would miss out on gold that could have been obtained by vendoring / ah-ing the Green / Blue / Purple item that dropped. Do you really want the other extreme that enchanters get dibs on every item that drops? How would you suggest a more equitable way?

This, pointless argument is pointless.

To the epic poster above, I guess you have a point there, but in the end, do you really care? Are you that selfish? Actually you need on every item possible, you're just a dick. Them being able to diss epics doesn't really affect you in the slightest. Before this was possible, at the end of each 5/10/15 man run, the enchanter would split all shards/epics anyways, because they weren't jerks like yourself.

Outside, try it.

[kenn9530]

I have been quite annoyed about this for some time now. It has only come about now because of someone in trade chat yelling STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE. Why is enchanting the only profession where everyone in the group can roll on the disenchanting mats? Think about it for a second, remember Icehowl? Did everyone get to roll on the fur? How about the flower pickers in the Freya part of Ulduar? Everyone get to roll on the flowers? Did the miners in General Vezax give the option for everyone to roll on those mats? So why is it everyone can roll on the disenchanting mats?

everyone needs the enchanting matts where as other stuff like skins only a few ppl need so to have only the enchanter able to get the items would make it a little unfair as sometimes there isnt even an enchanter in the group, blizz change the rolls on this to make it fair for everyone to get enchanting matts even if they are not an enchanter.

Enchanting matts are the most common out of all prof related ways to gather so its the best option to have everyone able to gather the matts if they win the rolls, otherwise the enchaters will be overflowing in matts and wont know what to do with them.

On my enchanters, I now NEED on every BoP item that I am capable of needing on in an instance. Consider it a charge for using my profession throughout the run.

I'm NOT talking about BoEs. I'm NOT talking about DEing stuff for guildies. I'm NOT talking about expecting all the gear to come to me. Anyone who brings this up is missing the point.

If I'm running Zx and there's no enchanter. Everyone greeds and gets to vendor epics for 20g. Now suddenly I'm an enchanter. Now everyone can DE and get a crystal worth 300g. They just made 280g off of MY profession. Can you see why I might have a problem with that? There's been runs where they all click DE, I click greed, and I don't end up winning anything over the whole run. So now my four "team mates" have changed 200g worth of 10 vendor epics into 3000g worth of 10 maelstrom crystals, all because of me, and I end up with nothing? How exactly is that fair.

So like I said, I just need on every item that I am capable of needing on. I am just ensuring that I get my cut of the artificial profits that _I_ am manufacturing.

[Note I'm not a total dick about it. If someone else actually needs the item I trade it to them. I'm just looking for my fair share, I'm not looking to take things that people actually need. I just feel that I should get a significant percentage of the extra gold that I am FORCED to generate for other people.]

your using the loot system wrong, if someone needs then they will need otherwise the group will select disenchant, being an enchanter gives you no rights to any item that will be otherwise disenchanted, its fair game for everyone to roll on the matts and sell or stock as they wish. Most people choose profs for raiding purposes mainly and most are a decent way to make gold also but it still doesnt mean that just because you disenchant a few items which takes no more effort on your part that you should need on everything possible, just use the loot system as it was designed for and if you win some matts then be happy. Plus the maels are worth less than 200g a pop now so not really much gold in it.

On BoEs i think they should be automatically just greeded to everyone in the group as i would roll on any BoE that dropped if i could no matter what class it was for but unfortuately you can roll on them all anyway

Enchanters have had their chance to make enough gold now so its time for matts to be cheap so its not so expensive to get the best enchants, at the moment all profs can make a decent amount of gold if they want to.

[Christan]

Greed is on Par with Disenchant, why take away the option to DE from others in the group? What are you achieving?

why roll DE when it doesnt stack with the guild perk?
i greed everything, mail it to my chanter, and viola more mats to flood the market with.
and as well if someone doesnt have a chanter, i am sure they can find a guildie to DE everything,
i love how this takes out 20 minutes of de'ing stuff a week for the lazy ppl, 1 click de, much faster than mailing and ---etc.

[Radux]

Ok.

This thread has evolved from "ok conversation with some back and forth's" to "no you're wrong. I'm right and Blizzard should do this"

It's ok to disagree so long as you're not disagreeable. And basically everyone arguing back and forth is putting their hands over their ears yelling 'lalalalala I'm not listening lalalalala'. So this has gone far enough. I'm putting an end to it -- sorry.

Locked.