10man Raid composition - what lock spec to run with

[Webbee]

what are the classes that cancel out the demo buff?... i currently raid with destro (my main spec) and demo... using demo on specific fights (halfus with whelps and maloriak), but i'm considering switching for other fights to maybe buff the raid...

current usual raid composition:

arcane mage
fire mage
rogue
frost dk
resto druid
holy priest
resto shaman
prot pally
prot pally
with the 10 slot being the lock

Demonic Pact is 10% SP (shares with Elemental Shamans). Mages and any other Shaman will bring the 6% SP buff.

The 4% isn't very noticeable in 10-mans as the difference in rDPS and pDPS isn't significant enough to lose out on any benefits a non-demo spec might bring (shadowfury, replenishment, cleave, etc.).

In the most approximate of circumstances, its just mathing this out. Say your destro will pump out 20k dps and your demo spec will squeeze out 18k. For ease of calculations, say both mages currently average 20k dps each. By adding another 4% SP to them, let's just assume its a straight 4% DPS increase to them both. This would equate to an extra 1,600 DPS from both of them, which is shy of your 2000 DPS difference.

But of course, you can't forget other classes that the extra SP buffs. DK's diseases, all 3 healers, both Prot Pallies' holy damage (which would mean more threat and rDPS), and lastly the often overlooked Rogue's poisons.

This would definitely offset your pDPS loss, however, if a certain boss mechanic begs for another spec, don't feel too locked in to playing demo. For example, V&T and Omno was made for Afflic or Destro due to their cleave mechanics (Soul Swap and Havoc). And Atramedes air phase screams destro's superior movement DPS.

[Penguin FTW]

We ran Chimaeron25 (reg) the other day ... I was below all the other casters for most of the fight. Then during phase 2 we bloodlusted, and by the time he was dead I had shot up past all the other casters, more than making up for the first phase of the fight. Demo's execute is strong.

I'm going to assume that's because you popped meta during the Blood Lust, not because lolsoulfire

[Jenerena]

The problem with people saying that affliction and destruction beat demonology in single target dps is the assumption they're making that everyone has the 10% spell power buff. If they don't, and the player has equal skill / gear / luck with all 3 specs, then demonology will win.

Affliction / Destruction with 10% Spell power buff > Demonlogy > Affliction / Destruction with the 6% spell power buff

This. Speaking from personal experience, you're not going to get a great deal more out of affliction/destro when you're missing the extra 4% you would have as demo. Many people forget this. Now I may be slightly biased because I'm a bit of a demo whore but demo doesn't really struggle that much on any fight - you just have to know how to get the most out of it. The only time I ever switched to destruction/affliction was on those fights where I could multidot and far exceed the loss of 4% spell power due to that reason, but it was rare.

Lets do a little math anyway. For my lock I had a scale factor of roughly 2.2 for Spell power. Say a caster had 6600 spell power unbuffed. That's 660 extra spell power. 264 spell power would be the 4% missing. That's almost 600 dps. That's 1200 for the two mages. That's also 600 more for yourself. Then there's the healers. The specs are actually all extremely close when you take that 4% from affliction/destruction. It is up to you to play demo to the level to benefit your other casters.

I actually rerolled from my demo lock to my elemental shaman a couple of months back, for other utility reasons. Elemental shamans are supposedly lower than demo locks right now but the change was worth it for the extra utility (interrupts, nature res, windfury to name 3). My point is raid dps and overall utility of a group is much more important than personal dps, so take that into account. I don't know how powerful affliction really is over demo nowadays anyway.

[Meejum]

yeah, we are trying to squeeze a little extra dps for the final phase of ascendant counsel, and i thought demo might buff the healers and the other two casters, but someone in the raid was trying to tell me that the totem plus mage buff would trump the lock buff and i should just go with my highest dps spec (destro in my case)... i wasn't sure with all the changes and the buffs not stacking...

demo is great for this fight. save a meta CD for the last phase and use your doomguard. The "burst" of meta form with doomguard is a fantastic boost in DPS.

I generally use one meta during ignacious/feludius, because the raid damage seems to be higher in that phase and healers are generally working harder compared to phase two. Also because second phase is so much running around chasing the proper add to kill or getting grounded/tornadoes that it seems a waste to be in meta form running halfway across the room, doing very little damage, so I dont worry about doing one there. That leaves plenty of time for your meta to be ready for the last phase.

[frshovinstuf]

After doing some more testing/reforging trying to max mastery out, my numbers have become much closer to my affliction numbers but not quite as strong even for executes. Demo has just become a bit of an inconvenience (for me) with different stat priorities and it can be difficult to build another set when you're competing with other clothies. It was nice to see some better single target numbers, but it still leaves more to be wanted from me. The playstyle is a little more proc dependent than affy or destro, especially when trying to reduce cd time on meta.

[nilnar]

Depending on the spec of the rogue, affliction will come out on top of demo for raid dps on aoe fights. Jynx > 4% spellpower buff.

---------- Post added 2011-05-18 at 08:30 AM ----------

After doing some more testing/reforging trying to max mastery out, my numbers have become much closer to my affliction numbers but not quite as strong even for executes. Demo has just become a bit of an inconvenience (for me) with different stat priorities and it can be difficult to build another set when you're competing with other clothies. It was nice to see some better single target numbers, but it still leaves more to be wanted from me. The playstyle is a little more proc dependent than affy or destro, especially when trying to reduce cd time on meta.

This is why I don't play demo - the stat priorities.

[nocturnus]

Play what you enjoy playing. If you enjoy them all, pick the 2 specs you enjoy most. If you enjoy them all equally, pick aff and destro.

[Count Zero]

I'm going to assume that's because you popped meta during the Blood Lust, not because lolsoulfire

I was popping Meta on cooldown. Guess I'd gotten lucky with procs of whatever that lowers the cooldown on it; it was my third meta of the fight.

Either way. I'm sure folks were popping cooldowns then, too, and I still shot up past them.