Blizzards intentions with prot paladins?

[Deleted]

Capping Mastery Harder in 4.2
We are in the process of trying some different numbers for various talents and mechanics on the PTR, with the goal of making it harder (or impossible) to cap mastery. What we want to avoid is making mastery worthless or causing other undesirable effects.

If we are successful, we will adjust the other tanks to be relatively balanced with paladins again.

If we aren't successful, we know what the fall back position is (basically what we have now).

At this time, we're in the middle of examining this and other changes. Please be reminded that we do read the forums, and appreciate feedback. A dispassionate perspective goes a long way

Am I the only one worried about prot paladins getting screwed over now?
We can only begin to wonder what their intentions are, but I do have a feeling that it will not be good for us.

[Recoverus]

If we are successful, we will adjust the other tanks to be relatively balanced with paladins again.

This is the line that really really concerns me. It doesn't say when they will adjust the other tanks. Do they mean during the PTR? Or wait until after 4.2 goes live when they see that Paladins are way behind in terms of damage reduction.

And this ...

We are in the process of trying some different numbers for various talents and mechanics on the PTR, with the goal of making it harder (or impossible) to cap mastery

... just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why add 5% to our block chance if they want mastery to be harder to cap? It's just completely arse-backwards.

Sick of Paladins getting screwed over because they can't get the mechanics of the class right. This stuff should've been fleshed out and nailed during beta. Happens every fkin time.

[Deleted]

wanting to make mastery even harder to cap while giving us even more blockchance is just hillarious.

[Cardolan]

wanting to make mastery even harder to cap while giving us even more blockchance is just hillarious.

That 5% increased block chance comes at a pretty large reduction in the damage mitigation of blocking an attack, and it seems clear that they aren't done with the changes. You may (probably will) see less block chance per point of mastery - meaning you need more of it to reach full combat table coverage.

[Vodalos]

That 5% increased block chance comes at a pretty large reduction in the damage mitigation of blocking an attack, and it seems clear that they aren't done with the changes. You may (probably will) see less block chance per point of mastery - meaning you need more of it to reach full combat table coverage.

as usual we are the nerf's target.

[Howlee]

You shouldn't be happy with the current mastery and it's very good news that the Devs are acknowledging the problems with the stat. Hardcapping it already in the first tier of an expansion is pretty damn bad design.

They will most likely have to add a mechanic to our mastery to make sure it scales past full ctc (in the way critical block will continue to scale warrior mastery past 102,4) and that is why the scaling point for point has to go down to avoid the stat being ridiculously overbudget.

The (unfinished and incomplete) Holy Shield change is probably associated with this.

[mercutiouk]

It's rather likely that mastery will scale both chance and percentage while doing less per point and higher block chance being in from the start. Fine imo. The idea is even after you reach 102.4% you don't mind more mastery as it continues to drop the incoming damage by increasing the amount blocked (probably back up to a bit more than now). This of course assumes they know what they are doing which is generally becoming less of a certainty as time goes on.

[Aziel]

To be honest, and yes this may seem like an over reaction to some people but this is close to the last straw with my paladin as far as I am concerned. Sick of all the revamps and class redesigns.

I want blizzard to pick a paladin model and stick with it and make small tweaks instead of burying us under all the other classes in terms of viability for certain roles.

On second thoughts fuck this I'll roll a warrior...

[announced]

if blizz wants to screw with holy shield give us a more powerful wog or something. 45 or 50k heals for 3 charges sounds better. plus higher % per point for mastery.

[Ignorance]

Sick of Paladins getting screwed over because they can't get the mechanics of the class right. This stuff should've been fleshed out and nailed during beta. Happens every fkin time.

Pretty much this.

[Gallahadd]

aye I'm a bit unsure after reading these changes.... On one hand it's good, because at least now we KNOW that this ass backwards change to Holy Shield is just the first of many changes (hopefully a complete reworking of our mastery).... but also... this is BLIZZ... how does making mastery harder to cap fit in with adding 5% to our block, making mastery EASIER to cap.... I get the feeling when they say 'we want to make mastery harder to cap' what they really mean is 'we're going to put less mastery on gear, but put lots of lots of useless stats, that you will end up reforging'

the way I see it Blizz has two options. Revert the change, and just put alot less mastery on gear. This seems like the most probable path they'll take, as we've already seen some of the 4.2 gear, and it's pretty Mastery light.

second option is to completly redo prot Maserty, make it closer to the warrior model, where we gain a small chance to block per point (1.25 instead of our current 2.25), but make our mastery do something else at the same time ((a few ideas would be chance to block magic attacks as well, a small increase to block value, or something non-block related, like all our WoG heals generate a bubble (((hell we're paladin's bubbles are our thing )))or just ANYTHING to make our mastery something more than just lollotsofblock))

of course there is a secret third option, one I'm greatly considering.... 7day free trial for Rift...

[Donalduckadin]

Maybe they should balance other healers around Holy Paladins. That's a good idea.

[Llunai]

I've always been the last person to complain about class changes of any kind, especially Paladins.

That said, I'm facepalming.

[iceberg265]

You guys are acting like the sky is falling, but theres really no way you didn't see this coming. Yes we all hate being nerfed, but %102.4 capping in the first tier of content is ridiculously OP and would scale incredibly into the next tiers.

I predicted this (not exactly this but that they would do something like it) a couple months ago. You had to know they were either going to nerf pally mastery or buff the other tanks to compensate.

---------- Post added 2011-05-17 at 08:30 AM ----------

This is the line that really really concerns me. It doesn't say when they will adjust the other tanks. Do they mean during the PTR? Or wait until after 4.2 goes live when they see that Paladins are way behind in terms of damage reduction.

See, to me, that line says "we'll see if it works then buff other tanks up to the level that pallys will be at." Meaning, pallys will still be ahead of other tanks even after the nerf.

[evolve]

The big issue I have is blizzard doesn't have any intentions with prot paladins, they think we're fine right now and are going to be using us as the baseline for balancing the other tanks. Personally my prot paladin has become unbelievably boring ever since the WoG cooldown was implemented.

[Gallahadd]

You guys are acting like the sky is falling, but theres really no way you didn't see this coming. Yes we all hate being nerfed, but %102.4 capping in the first tier of content is ridiculously OP and would scale incredibly into the next tiers.

I predicted this (not exactly this but that they would do something like it) a couple months ago. You had to know they were either going to nerf pally mastery or buff the other tanks to compensate.

---------- Post added 2011-05-17 at 08:30 AM ----------



See, to me, that line says "we'll see if it works then buff other tanks up to the level that pallys will be at." Meaning, pallys will still be ahead of other tanks even after the nerf.

this would be really true....

if Pallys where MILES ahead of the other tanks, or if the nerf was to our mastery, but niether of these things are true. to take our closest comparison class, the Warrior, they're avoidance is pretty close to ours, with Shieldblock up (and dont forget it has a 33% uptime) it's probably equal, the difference is they have a mastery which scales exceptionally well, not only with itself but also with Shield Block, so even if they DO go over 102.4% when they hit SB, the 'Wasted' block is turned into Critical block, making them EVEN better.
the nerf was to Holy Sield (note NOT our mastery) and turned it from 10% Block Value, which combine with out mastery put us about even with Warriors (we blocked for slightly more all the time, they block for slightly less, but have a chance to block ALOT more) now we have a worse mastery, and block less than they do, how is that fair? how will we be better than the other tank classes now?

[Nyghtfall]

They will probably lower the base block chance that mastery gives and the percentage per point, but in return add a shield block value part to the mastery, so that the amount our shield blocks scales with it.

[Mitak]

Dont worry, all i read in the notes was- pally mastery is not scaling well, we will make it scale better and more interesting. I do not see what are you complaining about?

[Deleted]

That 5% increased block chance comes at a pretty large reduction in the damage mitigation of blocking an attack, and it seems clear that they aren't done with the changes. You may (probably will) see less block chance per point of mastery - meaning you need more of it to reach full combat table coverage.

I know and I really don't get why they do that. It's one thing that capping mastery already is too much, but taking away the 10% reduction from holy shield and instead giving us even more blockchance is just stupid, sorry. If they lower the % you get per rating, it's totally ok. But why are they taking away damage reduction and give us even more block. dont get it

[Nyghtfall]

I know and I really don't get why they do that. It's one thing that capping mastery already is too much, but taking away the 10% reduction from holy shield and instead giving us even more blockchance is just stupid, sorry. If they lower the % you get per rating, it's totally ok. But why are they taking away damage reduction and give us even more block. dont get it

Because they will add another aspect to our mastery. A aspect similar to what warriors have except that instead of giving a chance to Critical Block, it will likely increase the amount our shield blocks by X% and each point of mastery will increase it further by Y%. That way we will need the 5% block chance that the new holy shield gives, and if we had the old 10% block value on top of a mastery that has a scaling block value, we'd be OP.

They also might add a aspect to Holy Shield where it refunds the 5% block chance into block value if it puts us over block cap, like warrior's Shield Block.

Of course this is not for sure and merely speculation, but it almost seems like a inevitability considering what they want Prot paladins to block like.