Level Appropriate Raids and the Uncapped Who Want to do Them

[Mabaroshi]

I just got into a guild debate with a level 69 who wanted to do a 70 raid, short version of what happened is he was extremely dense, couldn't take more than one opinion at a time and ended up /gquit-ing.

What I wanna know is, whats everyone's opinion on people assuming that just because they have the level required to enter, doing raids and being successful is a given?
Even further than that, people in this position end up using cap levels as a crutch and rely solely on them, ignoring the mechanics of the fight. Even in the case of Sunwell geared 70s who run a raid, once an 85 joins mechanics are ignored and the appropriate levels die instantly, sometimes assuming the 85s weren't healing enough or lacked agro. Unless a raid is made up of the appropriate level, or at least using proper mechanics, the appropriate level basically becomes baggage, agroing unnecessary pulls and slowing down the raid for rezzes.

I've been through many raids like this, so I've gotten tired of the people who think level is the only requirement (on the flip side is the level 85s who think 5 levels is enough to faceroll everything but that's another topic..). So what's you're opinion on it? Personally I feel sad for the 60/70 twinks who gear up but will never be able to properly do the content they want to do.

[grymgroeth]

It's still possible to do the raids at level with assistance from 85s, the 85s simply have to remember they can't skip all the trash they're used to ignoring. Quit being lazy and do the raids the way they were meantto be done and your "twink" members will quit leaving when you can't be bothered to help them see content for their level.

[Lucash]

This is why i will never twink.

[Deleted]

It's still possible to do the raids at level with assistance from 85s, the 85s simply have to remember they can't skip all the trash they're used to ignoring. Quit being lazy and do the raids the way they were meantto be done and your "twink" members will quit leaving when you can't be bothered to help them see content for their level.

If you want to get the raid done the way it used to be done, at least as closely as it's possible with all the changes since vanilla/tbc/wotlk, get raid of appropriate-level players and go for it.

If you want to get boosted by 85s then get your friends to do it for you instead of begging to get into some stranger's group and poorly justifying the begging by spouting oh-so-common "appropriate level is enough, u bad!". Why the hell anyone would carry a set of baggage in their raid if they want to get it done asap for the achiev/RP gear? Only reason to use up a lot of my time for nothing I can see is helping a friend. (Just because someone shares a guild tag with you does not mean he's automatically your friend.)

[Deleted]

I dunno, I've only done a few pug runs of AQ40 back when everyone was farming rep for the achievement. My general opinion was that level 60 chars tended to die so often because they tended to behave in a suicidal manner, either through ignorance of fight mechanics or overconfidence. And we usually had a very small number of healers, so it wasn't worth bothering to heal them if they hadn't the sense to stand at the back out of the way of the nastyness.

[Mabaroshi]

It's like when a raid recruits a level appropriate tank for a lvl 70 raid, the 85 dps always end up out-agroing him and pulling the boss. Unless everyone is on par then the 85s will end up carrying the entire thing and the 70s become baggage. It reminds me of back in BC when I was a noob, got attuned to naxx and went in, pulled a mob when there was 3 seconds time left in the auto-port out and they killed me before the timer hit 0. Things that are designed for 40 level 60s will require either level and gear to shell out the extra people or the appropriate number and gear with the level

[Deleted]

It's still possible to do the raids at level with assistance from 85s, the 85s simply have to remember they can't skip all the trash they're used to ignoring. Quit being lazy and do the raids the way they were meantto be done and your "twink" members will quit leaving when you can't be bothered to help them see content for their level.

A few weeks ago, we allowed a lvl 80 DK to join our guild as a social member. He told me that he wasn't sure, if he would buy Cata at all and that he was trying to decide. Anyways, I figured that as a social it wouldn't really matter much.

So, he joins and starts spamming trade and guild for an Ulduar 10 and or 25 drake run. I whispered him that we would possibly do some old content on our alts at some point but that he should not count on us to "boost" him.

He couldn't understand, why a raiding guild wouldn't carry a lvl 80 to a drake. Since we're a 10 man guild it's not likely that we will have 25 ppl online at the same time - specially not on a non raiding night. Anyways, he asked if he could come on this possibly run and I said, that I wouldn't promise him a spot. Why? Cause I would take a lvl 85 before him and I would take any guildie who have been in the guild longer before I'd take him.

Tl;dr: If a "lowbie" wanna do a raid with lvl 85 ppl, he/she should not bother his guild. Sometimes lowbies get away with being carried, cause they are organizing=buying them a spot if you will. A lowbie will be extra baggage and therefore they cannot expect that their guild will carry them.

[Playintrafic]

We have this annoying tard in our guild who has no level cap toons but several between 70 and 81-82. Every single day he is forming up a Sunwell, or BT, or Ulduar Drake run or something else that he spams trade and bothers healers/tanks in the guild to run him through.

I finally just ignored him. When ever I do my TK Runs for the Phoenix I am sure he is steaming about the fact that I will take 3-4 85s with me and not him, to a 25m raid.

[Deleted]

lol I bet that guy really hates you

But yeah, ppl should spend their time leveling instead of bothering lvl 85's. And for the twinks - well it's your choice to stay at lvl 70, now go do stuff with other ppl like you (oh wait most ppl lvl to 85 to actually play). Most twinks do BG's anyways and that's something they don't need to bother the rest of us with.

[zombie0]

raiding = endgame content
uncapped = not endgame
the only level appropriate raid is at level cap, thus the premise is flawed

[Deleted]

But Sunwell or TK is not really endgame. It's just outdated and places ppl go to farm mounts and this is probably why the lowbies wanna do it.

[Xargoth6634]

As someone who runs ICC25 and Ulduar 25 drake runs weekly on my server while collecting fragments for my Val'any and Shadowmourne, I come right out and say I won't take anyone under 85 when I advertise in trade to fill the lasy few spots. It gets me some emo whispers from time to time, but that policy has really served myself and those I group with well. At 85 you have a lot more margin for error with the increased dps and exponentially larger health pools, and bringing along someone at 80 who doesn't know what he's doing is just tiresome. We have enough trouble with people who can't follow simple instructions at 85 (I don't even want to talk about Vezax life leeches this week) without giving ourselves the additional headache of carrying lowbies long for the ride. That said: I do allow regulars that I know can follow fight mechanics and be raid aware to bring a couple sub 85 toons every week. They've proved themselves and I know I don't have to worry about them. Overall I'd rather take 15 85s than 15 85s and 10 80s. I don't care about twinks either, I've been in a few runs where they've come along and whined about wanting priority on gear because it was level appropriate for them. You're not entitled to anything and you're being carried, shut up and go join a level 80 raiding guild and do it at level if it's that important to you.

[Deleted]

lol so true. And while the lowbies want the loot, cause it's appropriate level to them, what are they really gonna use it for anyways? A lot of ppl at lvl cap wants Tier pieces from old raids, simply to have it (don't understand why though). So the argument that the lowbies should have dips is somewhat irrelevant.

[Xargoth6634]

I really do sympathize with the o.p. though, because I see way too many idiots who think that dinging X level magically earns them the right to hop in whatever raid they want. I only played a few months before BC hit, but getting my priest to 60 was a hell of a grind then, and felt like a real accomplishment, and I'm sure many of you who did the same will agree. With the xp needed to level being reduced over and over and the in game questhelper being added the 1-whatever level experience has got to be a blur even for new players.

If you want to play the "my level entitles me to join your raid" card you better remember the other thing everyone had to do besides just ding as well: your gemming, speccing, rotation, and enchanting had better be spot on, and you'd better be geared in gear from the raid prior before asking for an invite, although that's probably too much work. Chances are if you're the kind of person who has all that down you're just going to be grinding out the last needed levels to 85 anyway, instead of whining at me in 12 year old texter speak in trade.