Bear ( Confused on Gems)

[CptFatman]

i read the bear tank guide in the forums and i started to look around at other druid tanks in my server. A bunch of them in the top guilds in my server are all just stack stam? Is that just a end game thing or for a druid who is just starting out in raids should i jus stack stam? or should i jus stack like stam and agil like the guide says??

any help would be awsome

[RageasaurusRex]

Avoidance first, stamina later.

[ZeroEdgeir]

I know that for most tanks, the Stamina starts to be valued for Heroic raiding more.

However, you aren't up to that point, so getting more avoidance/mitigation is a bigger deal.

So, I would assume your guide suggested Agility/Stam for Blue Sockets, Pure Agility in Red sockets, and Agility/Dodge for Yellow? I haven't got my bear up to tanking in Cata yet, so not sure. Most likely, do what the guide suggests, as it's not likely meant for end-game heroic raid progression.

[Mordin Solus]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggibear/simple

my armory case u want to check that out. nto sayin its perfect and u should follow it but i think it hits the spot when i mt stuff in raids

[Daetur]

Many tanks stack stamina for Heroic endgame content-- it's generally viewed as the "standard" for bleeding edge progression. For non-heroic and "easier" heroic raiding content, you want avoidance/mitigation > stamina.

[Deleted]

Im confused by this subject too. Almost every bear I see reforges undesirable stats > dodge then gems nothing but stamina and these are heroic dungeon geared bears. I have never once seen a single bear gem for anything other than stamina :S

But ye, what you want it avoidance/migitation (normally mastery) if you have enough Stamina already.

[Ashareth]

i read the bear tank guide in the forums and i started to look around at other druid tanks in my server. A bunch of them in the top guilds in my server are all just stack stam? Is that just a end game thing or for a druid who is just starting out in raids should i jus stack stam? or should i jus stack like stam and agil like the guide says??

any help would be awsome

It's like for everything with tanks, it depends on the content you are partaking in.

For instances, specially now, you should be fine on Stam/Avoidance, and starting to be lacking on threat (and damage but that's another thing), due to the slow stacking of Vengeance (not much incoming damage, more avoidance streaks, etc), so going for more threat (hit/exp/agi/etc) is quite nice once you reached the survivability cap (ie : where you don't fear being 2 shotted or die before you healer can catch up or if he has to move for a few sec for exemple).

For normal raid content, you don't really need threat (initial one should be provided by tricks/md, and after that, with the size of the blows you take from raid bosses, Vengeance stacks quite high AND fast, so you don't have problems), it's the point where the guide is aiming mostly.

For HC content, and specially on progression content, it goes back often to "survivability problem" for tanks, and it's why quite some of them (not only Bears, Pallies and DKs do it too, and probably some Wars), so they go back to Stam to get a bigger buffer, because some bosses hits so hard that you need 180k or more to not depend on healers not missing a heal, and you not having a suite of unavoided/blocked/absorbed hits to survive.


All depends on what content you are running, and adapting to it. Most of the progressing/high end Guilds don't run the same content than you will, and quite some of them did it with lesser gear than you will (if you reach that point, they did most of it with not full normal raid gear, and maybe a couple hc pieces, probably some blues still there too, while you'll probably be in nearly full normal gear before attempting your first hm, due to the time farming it, and the others blue pieces would be replaced with valors/Zanda items) and needed the added life to be able to sustain 2/3 hits from hm bosses hitting like trucks.

edit : and i'm not sure for the guide, if he has been updated or not, but i think some things changed since 4.1 for Bear due to the Mastery Change, and quite some people might not have followed (had to that the fact that a shitload of tanks STILL haven't grasped that the whole "Stamina's trump it all" mentality isn't the "best way to go whatever happens" anymore, and the fact that quite some people only look at numbers, and hence only want big life on their tanks without thinking out why or understanding why it might be better to have a tank with 15% less hp but more avoidance/mitigation, and you will understand why you see so much people stacking Stamina. The other stigma is people copying the spec/gems/enchants choice of World First guilds, without understanding WHAT they do and WHY, or why it might not be adapted to them "But zey r ze best, zey must be right !!!" ).

[Deleted]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggibear/simple

my armory case u want to check that out. nto sayin its perfect and u should follow it but i think it hits the spot when i mt stuff in raids

I stand corrected. The first actual "bear" i've seen that has something other than stam gems

[Chloride]

Once you get the gear level (hard mode raiding) you can gem stam. For the lower levels youll want agi and lots of it.

[Daetur]

Im confused by this subject too. Almost every bear I see reforges undesirable stats > dodge then gems nothing but stamina and these are heroic dungeon geared bears. I have never once seen a single bear gem for anything other than stamina :S

But ye, what you want it avoidance/migitation (normally mastery) if you have enough Stamina already.

People are still stuck on "I'm dying, I must need more health!"

Really, until you are doing Heroic raid content, you will have enough stamina from gear. Reforge mastery if the item has no mastery, and dodge if the item has mastery and another stat. Gem Agi and Agi/Mastery. In general, ignore socket bonuses unless they are +20 of a stat per non-red or yellow socket. Someone with more bear math can correct this if it's wrong, but this is the "optimal" normal mode raiding setup as I've learned it.

Here is my bear for you to look at as well. Note, though, that my bear is an alt and my gems/trinkets are not what they "should" be in a few cases (mostly looking at socket bonuses).

[Deleted]

People are still stuck on "I'm dying, I must need more health!"

Really, until you are doing Heroic raid content, you will have enough stamina from gear. Reforge mastery if the item has no mastery, and dodge if the item has mastery and another stat. Gem Agi and Agi/Mastery. In general, ignore socket bonuses unless they are +20 of a stat per non-red or yellow socket. Someone with more bear math can correct this if it's wrong, but this is the "optimal" normal mode raiding setup as I've learned it.

Here is my bear for you to look at as well. Note, though, that my bear is an alt and my gems/trinkets are not what they "should" be in a few cases (mostly looking at socket bonuses).

Ye I always thought it should be like that, but i've never actually seen it in action, and being the altoholic I am, I do alot of heroics so its not like seen a small number of bears either. Thanks for that. Will be really useful when I make my druid a bear

[Barawr]

Your gemming/enchanting is still only a small part of it. Using your CDs properly and frequently plays a much bigger role in your survivability. Barkskin should almost always been on CD in dungeons since it's on a 1m timer. Your other big boy CDs you shouldn't be scared to use either at times when you can expect to take a lot of damage. Also, don't underestimate the value of keeping Demoralizing Roar up especially when applied to packs in a dungeon.

[sp2danny]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggibear/simple

Your meta is inactive

[Mordin Solus]

Your meta is inactive

its active

[yurano]

The reason you stack stam is to run Heroics. The first indicator of gear for a tank in any 5 man Heroic is their HP level. Have you ever zoned into a Heroic to see a 130k Luck of the Draw tank? The common response would have been 'OH MY GOD' > drop group. Many people don't even bother to inspect.

Now if you're raiding with a guild, you should gem however the Raid Lead, Tank Lead or Healing Lead wants you to. If you die, you didn't 'gear' wrong (at least in their book). Now in an ideal world, your Raid Lead, Tank Lead or Healing Lead will ask you to gem the correct way, as other have posted before me. But understand that the correct way is not always the way other people want.

I personally prefer Stam stacking tanks when running 5 mans. I play a Resto Druid so I can heal through the additional damage. What I can't do is chain spam Divine Lights when the tank takes abunch of damage bringing him down from 130k to 20k. For a stam stacking tank, it would be more along the lines of 160k to 50k, which is more healable as a Resto Druid.

TL;DR Do what other people want you to do.

[Kalti]

The reason you stack stam is to run Heroics. The first indicator of gear for a tank in any 5 man Heroic is their HP level. Have you ever zoned into a Heroic to see a 130k Luck of the Draw tank? The common response would have been 'OH MY GOD' > drop group. Many people don't even bother to inspect.

I have ~130k HP in heroics with my bear and have no trouble with healers who obviously queezed the queue ilvl requirement with 339 pvp blues in their bags. I also easily outgear all the normal heroic dungeons.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../kallti/simple

If you leave when a bear tank has 130k HP, you're a fool. Avoidance tanks are easier to heal.

[Rambear]

The truth is that agility > stamina in most cases. Theorycrafting suggests it is better to go for avoidance for ALL content, even heroics.

As an example, I tanked Nef heroic in kitty gear by accident, and we got him to 14% without me feeling very much in danger, except that I missed a CD from TB trinket.

There is no boss that requires you to gem stam, enchant stamina or even use stamina trinkets. With appropriate gear you get enough HP from it to survive 2 hits of every boss. If you are still most 359 and doing Cho'Gal I'd say some stamina could be needed.

However, that being said. There are cases where an extra buffer is nice. I feel safer on Nef with 180K+ than I did with 164k. Maloriak Black Phase more HP is better. Cho'Gal heroic I like to run 190k-ish, cause he hits like a truck.

However, there is no damage spikes that cannot be handled by proper use of CDs.

I balance my stats, and currently run some stam enchants and JC stam gems myself, bt mostly so I can use avoidance trinkets.

Hope it helps, there is no one answer. It depends on your gear level, the encounter, your healers etc. Maybe look at WoL at how much damage you take to another tank (if only in BH), or ask healers what they think. You NEVER play by yourself, it always depends on the situation I guess (something people forget when they say Sejta from Paragon stacks stamina, so it must be best).

[Zn]

it's just the easiest way to gauge a tank, plain and simple. rather than inspecting his gear, spec and everything else to judge how good a tank he is, just look at his health bar. unfortunately it's a misconception that the biggest health pool = the best tank.

it's also a fact that most pugs and players in general who don't play a bear have no idea that our health is actually the same or lower than the other tanks, when gemmed/enchanted properly. they're used to bears with much more hp than other tanks (as that's the way it was all the way up to the end of wotlk). but 'tis no longer the case.

so the simple answer is, bears don't need (or even want) to gem and enchant all stam, but most of the population incorrectly believes that we should have the highest health pool, and if we don't it means that we're bad tanks. they're wrong. but it's nigh impossible to teach everyone that. so might as well go for a big enough health pool so you don't get immediately kicked/leave group in pugs and keep the morons happy. we have plenty of threat and avoidance anyways so apparently our focus should be on keeping the morons happy.

[Kalti]

I don't know why everyone keeps saying that nobody knows that we gem agi and you will be seen as a bad tank for having low HP.

That has literally never happened to me once and I have seen no evidence that the mentality is out there, even if I did encounter that I would simply explain to the person that gemming agility is now how bears roll. Very simple.

You are not judged by your HP pool, most people know this, at least everyone I have encountered on my realm has never made an issue of it, I've even on multiple occasions been complimented on how easy bears are to heal after ZA or ZG.

I don't think that sillyness is as wide spread as people are suggesting.

[Velthy]

Find a balance. I see seriously no point in gemming pure stamina. My opinion, well thats what i did.
In all red and blue sockets 20 agi 30 stam gems.
In all yellow sockets 20 dodge 30 stamina gems.
On everything haste>hit>exp rerorged to dodge.
Enchanting dodge, mastery, agility, stamina.