Divine Plea - The Double Edge Sword

[Cajete]

I have a question I want to ask after I say a few things really quick.

So next patch we get hit with a mana nerf. Most heals are getting mana cost increased. To compensate a little they've also buffed a few mechanics. Apparently the blue post I read said that the reason they decided to do this is because while all other healers are going oom, the Pally, apparently is like an energizer bunny (or was). Not to sure how PTR is right now...

Anyway, the point I wanted to get across is - if Blizzard is aiming at keeping all healers mana up to par, then why do we get a 50% heal reduction for a lousy 18% (Glyphed) return in mana. Divine Plea seems pretty pointless in heal intensive fights when you are going OOM but can't afford the reduction. No other healer class has a reduction on there mana return spells. Only Pally. I'm not hating, I'm just saying. Sooo... that being said.

1. Why is Pally the only class that has this reduction?
2. When is the correct time to pop DP and when do you use it?

Thank you every one!

[Abandon]

It's difficult to compare different classes with different mana regen mechanics directly like this. If you were able to, then things like Hymn of Hope would obviously be far worse than Divine Plea since it reduces the amount of healing you can do to nothing while channelling it.

[Blizzcon2011]

Put hand of Sacrifice on tank + that tank CD on yourself, forgot the name + divine plea ???? Profit

[tjanson]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that the only mana return analogous to DP is Innervate. Both Mana Tide and Hymn of Hope benefit other members of the group. Druids are indeed very effective healers, but with paladins having cooldowns like Hand of Sacrifice and Aura Mastery, I think we come out alright.

Be glad that the healing reduction is only 9 seconds and not the 15 it used to be.

[Deleted]

Paladin's mana regen mechanic is far better than the shaman's which is totem(6k hp) that gets 1shot after 1-2 seconds its down. U should pop DP when ur partner's hp is high enough so u dont need to heal intensively.

[meroko]

our divine plea is a 1m CD. and druid innervate is longer CD "i think. not too sure"

Welcome to CATA, DP is 2 min CD

I personally think you can use DP whenever you want, I just use it with Avenging Wrath to negate some of the healing loss, 9 seconds of reduced healing really isn't that critical in any fight. Sinestra does not count, you do not need DP as your mana pool is essentially only Phase 1. Phase 2 you don't have to heal shit really and phase 3 it is unlimited.

Also, timing Divine Plea with Power Torrent and any other INT increasing abilities such as trinkets and such are pretty damn nice. As DP is based off your MAXIMUM mana. I suggest setting up a Power Auras to show you when you get PT and to use DP/Arcane Torrent during this time for maximum mana gain and earning more than the 18% on paper.

Overall it is a very fun ability to me....I like having to time it and use it to maximize its benefit. This is why it seperates good from bad. When you find a holy paladin that ooms, they are just being bad. The mana nerfs are justified to me as I finished every hard mode over 50% unless it got out of control which is cause for healers going OOM.

TL;DR - We needed the nerfs....granted they suck. But our HPS is in an even better spot and timing DP with any int increasing abilities is win.

[Firecrest]

1. Why is Pally the only class that has this reduction?

DP was not designed this way. When it first came out (as one of the new spells created at the beginning of Wrath), there was no healing reduction. It turned out to be very strong (and very boring - you just macro'ed it to your HL and went about your business). Shortly after Wrath launch, it went through a series of changes. In the space of a few months it was nerfed, un-nerfed, altered and nerfed again. It has evolved and had even more iterations since then.

I suspect that if you asked the designers, deep in their heart of hearts, they would tell you that the healing reduction that accompanies DP is not a good thing. It is an inelegant solution to a problem they created by not fully realizing the strength of the ability to a Holy Paladin. While other classes were designed from the ground up having their similar abilities (Druids have always had Innervate, and as such it has always been a consideration), DP is relatively new to the Paladin and so it was not taken into consideration when the class was formed. At this point, the ability is kind of half inserted into the class. They can't take it away and they can't fully give it to us.

There has probably been ample time since the release of Wrath to take the band-aid off DP and fix the underlying problem, but that clearly has not been done. Who knows... Maybe they actually like the decisions that DP forces. On the other hand, I feel that it has more to do with Blizzard's demonstrated ignorance regarding the core tenants of our class.

I personally think you can use DP whenever you want, I just use it with Avenging Wrath to negate some of the healing loss

This is some bad advice. Ideally, you should never offset a Plea with a throughput CD. Know your fights and know your healing rhythm. You should be able to find lull enough to Plea when you don't need to maintain 100% effectiveness. If I've bungled my mana management, I might feel the need to continue casting heals while DP is going. But I can't remember a time this expansion where I'd fouled it up so bad that I kept casting AND popped CDs.

[Talen]

DP was not designed this way. When it first came out (as one of the new spells created at the beginning of Wrath), there was no healing reduction.

Actually, when it first appeared during the Wrath Beta, it was a 6s channelled spell. Neat animation. I kinda miss it.

I suspect that if you asked the designers, deep in their heart of hearts, they would tell you that the healing reduction that accompanies DP is not a good thing.

On the contrary, I suspect you'll find they think ti a good thing. A very good thing. Why? Because it IS a good thing. The issue isn't with the healing reduction on DP....its a powerful mana regen tool on a fairly short CD so Paladind do need some reason not to simply macro it in but make it worth thinking about....but with the relative lack of such features on other such tools; they are there but not as strong.

This is some bad advice. Ideally, you should never offset a Plea with a throughput CD.

I understand its actually a fairly common practise. Its best used in lulls, certainly but thats not always possible.

EJL

[Firecrest]

On the contrary, I suspect you'll find they think ti a good thing. A very good thing. Why? Because it IS a good thing. The issue isn't with the healing reduction on DP....its a powerful mana regen tool on a fairly short CD so Paladind do need some reason not to simply macro it in but make it worth thinking about....but with the relative lack of such features on other such tools; they are there but not as strong.

I may have been unclear. I'm not trying to say that the healing reduction is not needed. I'm just saying it's not elegant design. I don't think they would have ever considered releasing it as a new spell with the reduction attached. That was just the band-aid they attached later once DP's power became clear.

DP does force you into making some interesting decisions, but a spell that is at odds with itself and actually prevents the player from doing what they're supposed to do is bad design. The decision you make is to NOT do your job. That's not a good decision to have to make.

This is not to say that I have a better idea. The only fix I can think of would be to remove DP entirely and adjust spellcosts downward to compensate. But that's not a particularly flattering solution either. Then again, I'm not Blizzard's brain trust and that's not what I get paid to do.

I'd forgotten about DP's time as a channeled spell though. lol - Good times.

[Talen]

I'm not trying to say that the healing reduction is not needed.[ I'm just saying it's not elegant design.

It - or something like that is needed to balance the ability. It is actually a fairly powerful mana regen tool and this feature stops Paladins simply spamming it and think about when best to use it.

I don't think they would have ever considered releasing it as a new spell with the reduction attached.

They considered releasing it with a 100% healing reduction. It was released with, IIRC, 20%.

The decision you make is to NOT do your job. That's not a good decision to have to make.

Not quite. The decision is whether this is the best time to use it or not. If you need to heal, you either don't use it, you cancel it or you use AW to partially cancel the effect. It doesn't stop a Holydin healing at all and there are mechanics in place to ensure that a Holydin can work around the restriction.

One could argue a different penalty would be better. So far, noone has proposed anything that strikes me as a suitable replacement.

In short...DP is a powerful mana regen tool that has a small side effect that is easily sidestepped with some forethought. It does the job its meant to, and if you really want to consider the penalty a band aid solution...then its one of the few that work well.

I'd prefer the original version...channel the spell to regain mana....but that is a personal preference and at leaat in part due to the fact I liked the animation. But the current version works well.
EJL

[Eviljoe]

Welcome to CATA, DP is 2 min CD

I personally think you can use DP whenever you want, I just use it with Avenging Wrath to negate some of the healing loss, 9 seconds of reduced healing really isn't that critical in any fight.

This is probably the worst thing you can do. Basically wasting your best healing cooldown (aside from GoAK) just so you can use it "whenever." Huge HPS loss considering there are many times in every encounter which you can safely plea, instead of using it on cooldown in conjunction with other cooldowns.

[terrahero]

Divine plea has the worst mana-to-cooldown ratio of all mana regen tools. Atleast, untill shamans get their totem nerfed in 4.2.

The Priest Hymn of Hope is NOT what i would compare Divine Plea with, seeing as Hymn of Hope is more a raid mana recovery tool then for the priest. Their personal mana recovery is from Shadow Fiend, and that does not cost them any healing done. Heck, they even get a little dps boost from it, for what its worth as a healer.

So i disagree with Talen on this, Divine Plea is a less powerfull mana regeneration tool then Innervate, Shadowfiend and Mana Tide. And none of those come with a severe penalty. The diffirence in planning is in how rewarding it is.

Innervate; you can use this on someone else. Dont be selfish and think for a second if you REALLY need it, or spare it to someone else.
Shadowfiend; The little bugger has to hit something, so dont be dumb and pop it during an airfase.
Mana Tide; Regens mana for everyone in your party, use it when it is is most effective.

Those are tactical choices, where clever use only makes the ability "more effective", where as Divine Plea requieres tactical use to be hurt as little as possible from using it. Blizzard seems to like giving paladins a "punishing" gameplay.

[Kasadya]

because it's very situational.

compared to druids for example.
they don't burn mana as much as holy paladins during intense fights where it require u to constantly cast lots big heals.

on the other hand, paladins beats druids in term of Hps.

our divine plea is a 1m CD. and druid innervate is longer CD "i think. not too sure"

i find it extremly cool to have an ability like divine plea because that shows up the skilled Hpala from the bad 1.

a good paladin will find the right time to use Divine plea." when the raid doesn't take considerable damage".
while a bad paladin will use it when boss is enrage and the tanks or the raid are taking too much damage.

let's say for example nefarian fight normal mode.
the fight becomes very tense at the start of the battle so u are burning mana from the very start. when you get to phase 2. where no 1 takes damage " unless someone fails" u start regaining mana and this is the best way to use divine plea.

and to answer ur main question.
divine plea is not useless. in fact it's one of the best abilities to regain mana of all classes. << considering the low CD and the short side effect.

Are you crazy? Druids are by FAR the most represented class on any logging site ATM, than disc, than paladins. They key to divine plea is maximizing output while minimizing downtime, personally I use it very early on a fight and try to get as many usages of it as possible.

[4KhazModan]

DP is very situational. Depends on the boss. For example, healing conclave, it is best used while anshal is performing his ultimate as there is no dmg going out. And by the time anshal finishes and hits like a truck, DP's duration is up. Its up to you to know when your raid is taking the most least damage and therefore needs the least healing. As for your question about other healers, ours only has a 1 min CD, while innervate and Divine Hymm have 10 mins CDs. Shaman's are restricted because theirs is a stationary totem.

[Deleted]

1. Why is Pally the only class that has this reduction?

Goddamn those apples, why are we the only orange people around here!?

2. When is the correct time to pop DP and when do you use it?

Whenever there is a low damage phase. When Nef is running to the middle of the room and lava hasn't come out yet, when Chim finishes Feud and no Caustic Slimes come out for over 10seconds still. When the bloods have died and there isn't a lot of DMG happening on Cho'gal. During the transition into black or green phase on Maloriak. During air phase on Atramedes.

You figure it out, as soon as you do a fight more than 1-2 times you'll know when the low damage phases are. I'm sure the other healers can cover your slack for a few seconds during those phases if you communicate with them.

[Firecrest]

As for your question about other healers, ours only has a 1 min CD, while innervate and Divine Hymm have 10 mins CDs. Shaman's are restricted because theirs is a stationary totem.

Not sure where you're getting your information from. DP has been a 2 minute CD since the last patch. Innervate is a 3 min CD. Divine Hymn is 8 (and Priests have Shadow Fiend to compensate).