1. #6141
    Herald of the Titans Muzual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Seriously? They're wearing skirts.
    I think the Penitus Oculatus are cool :>

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  2. #6142
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Seriously? They're wearing skirts.

    The way this'll go though, is that it'll probably depend on your save or they'll do a dragon break (again).

    Imperials need to get out of Skyrim, I've always wanted that place independent from Morrowind onwards.
    it looks a lot like roman armor you see in movies, which is pretty sweet. general tullius was almost exactly the same as all depictions of julius caesar lol.

  3. #6143
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcstunner View Post
    it looks a lot like roman armor you see in movies, which is pretty sweet. general tullius was almost exactly the same as all depictions of julius caesar lol.
    I know, but that doesn't change the fact they're wearing skirts.

    Tightass Mede honestly strikes me as Julius Caesar, though.

    The Empire used to be cool, particularly in Oblivion where they were led by Boromir and screamed at criminal scum. Now they're led by a nasally old man and his ad-hominem spewing man faced bitch second-in-command. Thankfully, however, the guard from Oblivion has indeed taken his rightful place as Emperor. YES.

  4. #6144
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    Another problem. I'm doing the civil war questline now, and after turning in the first step of liberating the rift(where you blackmail the steward), Legate Rikke gives me gold but doesn't give me the next quest, to capture Fort Greenwall. I don't want to have to skip this questline, but messing around with the console has yielded me no other options. Google told me you have to go ask Tullius how the war is going but that didn't do anything, neither did using the cooking spit in the camp and knocking out Rikke, then talking to her again. I've never encountered this problem before on any other character. Any ideas?
    It is possible that you have recently cleared out Fort Greenwall, which would prevent the quest from triggering. I had a similar issue with one of the Companions quests. I ended up having to wait a number of days (I did 30) for the location to reset AND use the console to re-trigger the quest start.

  5. #6145
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzual View Post
    Are we going to start a political debate?

    I'm with Imperials. I love Thalmor and I cannot bare Nord accents so it was a no brainer for me
    How exactly is discussing whether one of the major characters in Skyrim is a nod toward history's greatest dictator, on a skyrim discussion thread, political? We're talking about the video game, not real politics. And last I checked, discussions about Nazi germany weren't prone to wildly varying opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Ulfric is awesome. You're mucking about. And the Empire's racist and fascist too. The Stormcloaks aren't the latter, though. They're just a nationalistic monarchy. The Empire wants to replace every other culture with their own.
    Way to make your point. Indeed, Ulfric is a charismatic leader, who happens to believes any government that isn't Nord is weak, coming back from a war that left his nation unsatisfied with the current rulers and slowly excluding every other race from skyrim so as to make it stronger. And he's totally not fascist. He's just getting rid of his opposition through force, since they already made it clear they're putting Elisif on the throne, that's perfectly reasonable. Oh wait, that's MY point. And it doesn't sound reasonable at all.

    "Nationalistic Monarchy", you serious on this? He's killing his countrymen to get on the throne. The only difference between Nazis and stormcloaks is that the stormcloaks were stupid and started a civil war, while Hitler made sure his opinion had a solid base with the people before making a move.

    Meanwhile you call the Empire racist(name one race refused in the imperial army), fascist (it's an expansionist empire, the emperor doesn't control the people, instead relying on peace treaties. Oblivion had a better view on it) and replacing every other culture with their own, which so far has...one case, which is the banning of Talos worshippers. Which was forced by the Thalmor, who wants to, uh, destroy the world. And then you say I should not make incorrect comparisons.

    But you may actually have a point. Ulfric's stance actually sounds more like the Japanese Empire's than the Nazi's. Yeah, their allies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    It is possible that you have recently cleared out Fort Greenwall, which would prevent the quest from triggering. I had a similar issue with one of the Companions quests. I ended up having to wait a number of days (I did 30) for the location to reset AND use the console to re-trigger the quest start.
    Nah, I don't even have it on my map yet... I don't know what he meant, but the dragon bug someone commented last page is on the top of my list. second possibility on the trigger, I think, is Season Unending, but that doesn't help me at all. I see people having problems with the "Reporting for Duty" option, but not the one i'm having.
    Last edited by Valenhil; 2012-12-01 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #6146
    Herald of the Titans Muzual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    How exactly is discussing whether one of the major characters in Skyrim is a nod toward history's greatest dictator, on a skyrim discussion thread, political? We're talking about the video game, not real politics. And last I checked, discussions about Nazi germany weren't prone to wildly varying opinions.
    Video game politics are still politics .. :s

    I was ignoring the Hitler reference anyway, we were actually discussing personal opinions on Stormcloak VS Imperial so, political discussion
    My posts seem to be offending everyone today lol, I must be doing something wrong

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  7. #6147
    Bloodsail Admiral Vathdar's Avatar
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    Just as i download and get about 150 mods runing and the mood to play Skyrim without using any fast travel etc. I get assigned a bunch of stuff to do on the last 2 weeks of college. QQ

  8. #6148
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    Way to make your point. Indeed, Ulfric is a charismatic leader, who happens to believes any government that isn't Nord is weak, coming back from a war that left his nation unsatisfied with the current rulers and slowly excluding every other race from skyrim so as to make it stronger. And he's totally not fascist. He's just getting rid of his opposition through force, since they already made it clear they're putting Elisif on the throne, that's perfectly reasonable. Oh wait, that's MY point. And it doesn't sound reasonable at all.
    One, he isn't excluding any race from Skyrim. Foreigners in areas taken by Stormcloaks admit that nothing much changes for them (and don't talk about the Dark Elves. He never put them in the slum, according to 'the Scourge of the Grey Quarter' his father did. And Windhelm has large Imperial and Altmer minorities that are left alone). Oh, and no one's putting Elisif on the throne at all. The Moot's deadlocked because Ulfric has fucking half of Skryim at his back. Contesting the frankly foolish decision to put that idiotic woman child on the throne is well within his rights. Especially as half the country disagrees with this proposition. Which is by no means final. Ulfric has the legitimate claim anyway. He challenged Torygg. Torygg accepted. Torygg knew what he was getting into. Torygg lost. THE END. The only reason he isn't king is because the Empire suddenly decided to force itself into Skyrim's affairs.


    "Nationalistic Monarchy", you serious on this? He's killing his countrymen to get on the throne. The only difference between Nazis and stormcloaks is that the stormcloaks were stupid and started a civil war, while Hitler made sure his opinion had a solid base with the people before making a move.
    Oh, I suppose the French Revolution was pure evil as well by that token? As is the Arab Spring. The Stormcloaks DO have a strong base for their opinions. Half the fucking country. It KILLS Ulfric inside to wage war against his brothers ('we are ready (to take whiterun)' 'is any man ever ready to give the order that will mean the deaths of many?'. The Empire holds Skyrim back with its craven appeaser politics. The Stormcloaks are fighting to throw out an Empire that used them, abuses them and shows no respect to the sacrifices of the Nord legions that won the war for them. And they've already shown how well they regard the nations that made them strong. Sacrificing Hammerfell ring any bells? And also, many people in the Empire are happy with the arrangement with the Dominion. Read the 'Talos Mistake' and see Erikur.

    Oh, and another thing. The Stormcloaks at least don't do war crimes. Go speak to an NPC called Angi, she'll tell you that drunken Imperial soldiers murdered her entire family.

    Meanwhile you call the Empire racist(name one race refused in the imperial army), fascist (it's an expansionist empire, the emperor doesn't control the people, instead relying on peace treaties. Oblivion had a better view on it) and replacing every other culture with their own, which so far has...one case, which is the banning of Talos worshippers. Which was forced by the Thalmor, who wants to, uh, destroy the world. And then you say I should not make incorrect comparisons.
    "The Imperials think us all lawless beasts. I'm proof of their ignorance" - many, many guards.

    "My daughter's marrying some Nord beast!!" - Vittoria Vici's mother. Otherwise known as the Emperor's own aunt. (ironically, a Colovian. Who are culturally and religiously Nordic)

    "Everything that comes out of Tulius' fucking mouth pre-ridiculous "I'm tolerant now" bullshit"

    For a man who claims to have played both sides, you seem to know jack about both the 'Cloaks and the Empire. The Empire has always tried to force itself on other cultures and otherwise 'Imperialize' them. This was shown as far back as Morrowind. In fact, Dagoth Ur's main beef with the Empire was this. And this is part of Ulfric's beef with them as well. And seeing as how Imperial characters in the game constantly. CONSTANTLY deride Nordic cultures (see Tullius) and demonize them (Witchmen of the Reach) I see very little reason to sympathize with them. Face it, it's a corrupt wreck that deserves to die.

    Also. Nobody's refused entry into the 'Cloaks either.

    But you may actually have a point. Ulfric's stance actually sounds more like the Japanese Empire's than the Nazi's. Yeah, their allies.
    Your point being? I said calling him ''Hitler'' was wrong. He's more Josef Stalin.
    Last edited by Frostbane; 2012-12-01 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #6149
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    One, he isn't excluding any race from Skyrim. Foreigners in areas taken by Stormcloaks admit that nothing much changes for them (and don't talk about the Dark Elves. He never put them in the slum, according to 'the Scourge of the Grey Quarter' his father did. And Windhelm has large Imperial and Altmer minorities that are left alone). Oh, and no one's putting Elisif on the throne at all. The Moot's deadlocked because Ulfric has fucking half of Skryim at his back. Contesting the frankly foolish decision to put that idiotic woman child on the throne is well within his rights. Especially as half the country disagrees with this proposition. Which is by no means final. Ulfric has the legitimate claim anyway. He challenged Torygg. Torygg accepted. Torygg knew what he was getting into. Torygg lost. THE END. The only reason he isn't king is because the Empire suddenly decided to force itself into Skyrim's affairs.
    He made it very, very clear. Anyone who isn't a Nord has no place in Skyrim. You're right, he hasn't excluded any race from skyrim, but i never said he had. He will, if he gets his way.
    If no one is putting Elisif on the throne, tell me why would Ulfric start this war. The empire had the support of most jarls, add on top of that the fact that one of the Jarls supporting Ulfric wasn't takes seriously by anyone(Dawnstar) and another one is in Maven Blackbriar's pocket, And Maven supports the empire. If Ulfric didn't know he was going to lose, he wouldn't have made this stupid move. Because if the Dragonborn doesn't intervene, it's clear the empire wins.
    Ulfric killing Torygg was his first stupid move. He lost respect with at least 3 jarls, one on his side, and accomplished absolutely nothing from it. Killing the king in honorable combat, which wasn't witnessed by anyone of importance, doesn't make you king. His ego just needed a fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Oh, I suppose the French Revolution was pure evil as well by that token? As is the Arab Spring. The Stormcloaks DO have a strong base for their opinions. Half the fucking country. It KILLS Ulfric inside to wage war against his brothers ('we are ready (to take whiterun)' 'is any man ever ready to give the order that will mean the deaths of many?'. The Empire holds Skyrim back with its craven appeaser politics. The Stormcloaks are fighting to throw out an Empire that used them, abuses them and shows no respect to the sacrifices of the Nord legions that won the war for them. And they've already shown how well they regard the nations that made them strong. Sacrificing Hammerfell ring any bells? And also, many people in the Empire are happy with the arrangement with the Dominion. Read the 'Talos Mistake' and see Erikur.
    You answered your own question, those are revolutions. The stormcloaks aren't revolutionaries, they don't want to change anything in how skyrim is ruled. The empire has always allowed all the territories they conquer keep their own government, as long as they claim fealty. They never abused skyrim in any way until they lost the war to the Thalmor. Ulfric is just erasing the "fealty" part so he can be king. He's killing half his country because that half doesn't want him ruling. Fan-freaking-tastic. Truly a Nord hero.
    Also, the way you use individual opinions is hilarious. Those don't count, silly. They're individual. And Hammerfell wasn't sacrificed. Hammerfell left the empire due to not accepting the treaty. Refusing the treaty was never an option for the empire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Oh, and another thing. The Stormcloaks at least don't do war crimes. Go speak to an NPC called Angi, she'll tell you that drunken Imperial soldiers murdered her entire family.
    Again with the "judging every single person individually". Cute. Every army commits war crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    "The Imperials think us all lawless beasts. I'm proof of their ignorance" - many, many guards.

    "My daughter's marrying some Nord beast!!" - Vittoria Vici's mother. Otherwise known as the Emperor's own aunt. (ironically, a Colovian. Who are culturally and religiously Nordic)

    "Everything that comes out of Tulius' fucking mouth pre-ridiculous "I'm tolerant now" bullshit"
    So their opinion of the Nords mirrors almost exactly the Nord's opinion of the Empire? Is this supposed to prove anything other than the fact they are at war?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    For a man who claims to have played both sides, you seem to know jack about both the 'Cloaks and the Empire. The Empire has always tried to force itself on other cultures and otherwise 'Imperialize' them. This was shown as far back as Morrowind. In fact, Dagoth Ur's main beef with the Empire was this. And this is part of Ulfric's beef with them as well. And seeing as how Imperial characters in the game constantly. CONSTANTLY deride Nordic cultures (see Tullius) and demonize them (Witchmen of the Reach) I see very little reason to sympathize with them. Face it, it's a corrupt wreck that deserves to die.
    Of course they will "imperialize" them. It's their territory. But they still leave the nations to govern themselves freely. Just the fact that it's an agreement between the empire and the nation already speaks a lot about it.
    Once again, the imperials are at war with the nords. Neither side is going to be nice about it. What I do know is that the Empire was managing to turn a blind eye to a lot of stuff in Skyrim before Ulfric got uppity. I also know that a lot of Ulfric supporters aren't very good at thinking, because they seem to want to win a war against the empire, and then win a war against the Thalmor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Also. Nobody's refused entry into the 'Cloaks either.
    No way to know, as the Dragonborn is probably an exception. What we do know, is that the stormcloaks don't hold any other race's interests. So even if they do accept an argonian, they're not fighting for that argonian. The moment Ulfric wins, Skyrim will be Nords only. On the other hand, there's a reason Cyrodill is called "Seat of the Empire" instead of just "The Empire"

  10. #6150
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    He made it very, very clear. Anyone who isn't a Nord has no place in Skyrim. You're right, he hasn't excluded any race from skyrim, but i never said he had. He will, if he gets his way.
    He had his way in the Eastern portion of the country since the war started. And yet, no evictions.

    If no one is putting Elisif on the throne, tell me why would Ulfric start this war. The empire had the support of most jarls, add on top of that the fact that one of the Jarls supporting Ulfric wasn't takes seriously by anyone(Dawnstar) and another one is in Maven Blackbriar's pocket, And Maven supports the empire. If Ulfric didn't know he was going to lose, he wouldn't have made this stupid move. Because if the Dragonborn doesn't intervene, it's clear the empire wins.
    *facepalm* They have HALF of the Jarls alongside them when the game starts. So does Ulfric. Also, I like you're whole "few take Ulfric seriously" argument. Okay, how about this? Igmund is in the pocket of the Silver-Bloods who firmly support Ulfric. Maven doesn't support anyone in the war. She is supported by the Empire because she is the only one at hand to take care of Riften while Laila is away. Consider that Laila is perpetually under her unofficially, and by default she supports the Stormcloaks. Maven also supports them at the time. So this argument bears no substance. And the he keeps WINTERHOLD (not Dawnstar) under his command, because it's strategically important area.

    Oh, and Ulfric was actually close to routing the Empire from Skyrim before Tullius came and turned it into a stalemate.

    Ulfric killing Torygg was his first stupid move. He lost respect with at least 3 jarls, one on his side, and accomplished absolutely nothing from it. Killing the king in honorable combat, which wasn't witnessed by anyone of importance, doesn't make you king. His ego just needed a fix.
    When Istlod *Torygg's dad* died, Ulfric used the Moot to voice his desire for independence. Half the Jarls refused, half supported him. Ulfric killing Torryg made him no more enemies than he already had. Also, Ulfric's triumph was witnessed by Torygg's idiot wife, his whole court and his steward. So yeah.

    You answered your own question, those are revolutions. The stormcloaks aren't revolutionaries, they don't want to change anything in how skyrim is ruled. The empire has always allowed all the territories they conquer keep their own government, as long as they claim fealty. They never abused skyrim in any way until they lost the war to the Thalmor. Ulfric is just erasing the "fealty" part so he can be king. He's killing half his country because that half doesn't want him ruling. Fan-freaking-tastic. Truly a Nord hero.
    Freeing his people from oppression of not being able to venerate their gods and from being beggered by taxes isn't wanting to change how Skyrim is ruled? Ulfric mentions how Skyrim is under heavy taxation at one point, and one confirmation of this is that Whiterun's walls are falling apart. Whiterun, the commercial capital of Skyrim.

    Also, the way you use individual opinions is hilarious. Those don't count, silly. They're individual. And Hammerfell wasn't sacrificed. Hammerfell left the empire due to not accepting the treaty. Refusing the treaty was never an option for the empire.
    By this logic, Ulfric saying that Skyrim for the Nords shouldn't count either. Especially as the Stormcloak soldiers by default treat you well regardless of race and thank you for helping Nurelion the Altmer if you do his quest. These quotes are used by the narrative in order to represent the default Imperial outlook. Just as it is for the Stormcloaks. And as Hammerfell showed in beating back the Thalmor; yes it was.

    Again with the "judging every single person individually". Cute. Every army commits war crimes.
    Except the Stormcloaks are never shown doing so in any capacity that isn't Imperial Propoganda (Bear of Markarth). This NPC story is a good indicator because it's given by someone who doesn't support either side. Also, they have more sociopaths than the Stormcloaks. For instance, the torturer in Helgen, who's too caught up in his work to notice Alduin fucking shit up and that bitch captain who tries to kill you in the tutorial.

    So their opinion of the Nords mirrors almost exactly the Nord's opinion of the Empire? Is this supposed to prove anything other than the fact they are at war?
    They're not at war with Skyrim, they're supposed to be at war with a terrorist group. Yet they view ALL Nords as beasts. Or is racism alright when the Empire does it?

    Of course they will "imperialize" them. It's their territory. But they still leave the nations to govern themselves freely. Just the fact that it's an agreement between the empire and the nation already speaks a lot about it.
    Marginalizing and ridiculing the cultures of member states is not a good practice. The historical Roman Empire never even did it in this manner. And many Nords always resented the Imperialization of their country, which is why half the nation instantly threw beside Ulfric.

    Once again, the imperials are at war with the nords. Neither side is going to be nice about it.
    Once again, they say they're only at war against a so called terrorist organization.

    What I do know is that the Empire was managing to turn a blind eye to a lot of stuff in Skyrim before Ulfric got uppity. I also know that a lot of Ulfric supporters aren't very good at thinking, because they seem to want to win a war against the empire, and then win a war against the Thalmor.
    Agreed. But if Hammerfell can do it, Skyrim can as well.

    No way to know, as the Dragonborn is probably an exception. What we do know, is that the stormcloaks don't hold any other race's interests.
    Except that you can join the 'Cloaks before it is revealed that you're Dragonborn, right?

    So even if they do accept an argonian, they're not fighting for that argonian. The moment Ulfric wins, Skyrim will be Nords only. On the other hand, there's a reason Cyrodill is called "Seat of the Empire" instead of just "The Empire"
    No it wont. Mostly because foreigners in Stormcloak-occupied cities will say that nothing much changes for them aside from getting slightly less commerce because the new guards exercise their free right not to buy from people they don't like.

  11. #6151
    Ulfric is not racist. He allowed the Dunmer refugees to settle in Windhelm. It's just some Stormcloaks take it too far and become racist to all others.

    Either way though, there IS a lot of hate between elves and man for major reasons.

    Some history:
    The religious debate is centered on the fact that the elves believe they're descendents of the gods while the humans believe they are their creations. Because of this, the elves have gone out of their way to be oppressive towards humans, especially the high elves while also denouncing Talos from the very beginning.

    Talos' own story though is interesting. His rise to power wasn't one of true heroism/altruism AT ALL. He rose to power through power plays, under handed scheming and betrayal. But it was divine right regardless of all this.

    Then there's Lorkhan "the betrayer". The TRUE champion god of mankind. Sadly with the whole White-Gold Concordant everyone seems to have forgotten that HE is the basis for conflict between man and mer.

    Either way, the Imperials are kinda effed. They want to assimilate everyone into their own culture. That is a complete and utter impossibility with the elves and they should stop pursuing such a stupid goal especially with the lack of the long gone Septim dynasty.

    If the Dragonborn were to side with the Imperials, he would help them conquer over the elves once again for a short lived peace until he departs from Tamriel. The elves would again seek to gain control of the entire continent. As it is right now, I think it's best for the Nords to be vicotrious and maintain their culture. I think it would make sense for them to break off from the Empire and make an alliance with the Redguards; attack Elsweyr to begin beating back the Thalmor.

    On the other end of the landmass, the High Elves need to come to the realization that the Thalmor ARE corrupt and that the tribunal needs to be brought back into power before they bring about their own demise. That's the only way they can end up with lasting peace outside of the reign of the Dragonborn.

    Wow I wrote a lot...hmmm I wonder if most of it is even right...
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  12. #6152
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    He had his way in the Eastern portion of the country since the war started. And yet, no evictions.
    He's not in power yet! This is my one point with 0% speculation, Ulfric makes it extremely clear he believes in nord superiority and it's very obvious that as soon as he gets skyrim together under him he's gonna start expanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    *facepalm* They have HALF of the Jarls alongside them when the game starts. So does Ulfric. Also, I like you're whole "few take Ulfric seriously" argument. Okay, how about this? Igmund is in the pocket of the Silver-Bloods who firmly support Ulfric. Maven doesn't support anyone in the war. She is supported by the Empire because she is the only one at hand to take care of Riften while Laila is away. Consider that Laila is perpetually under her unofficially, and by default she supports the Stormcloaks. Maven also supports them at the time. So this argument bears no substance. And the he keeps WINTERHOLD (not Dawnstar) under his command, because it's strategically important area.
    You didn't get this paragraph very well. I'll rephrase what I meant in accordance to your counterarguments. At the start of the civil war, Ulfric has the support of one less hold than the Empire(He has Winterhold, Dawnstar, Windhelm, and Riften). That would make it a quite close competition, except there are 3 things: One, the Jarl of Dawnstar is an immature ruler who isn't respected by any of the other jarls in skyrim(Not Ulfric, the one you thought I meant). His support means close to nothing. Two, he has the support of Winterhold, which has...nothing. Three, the Jarl of Riften claims to be on his side, but was extremely shooked by Ulfric killing the high king, making her slightly reluctant on staying on ulfric's side. That by itself wouldn't mean much, but that same Jarl is also in Maven Blackbriar's pocket. Maven is a supporter of the Empire by proxy, due to the fact that she is a supporter of the Thalmor("Diplomatic Immunity"). As she basically owns Riften, you could say Riften is actually siding with the Empire. The same can't be said for Markarth, because the silver bloods aren't on good terms with the Jarl. Unlike Maven, they actually need the dragonborn's intervention to assume control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    When Istlod *Torygg's dad* died, Ulfric used the Moot to voice his desire for independence. Half the Jarls refused, half supported him. Ulfric killing Torryg made him no more enemies than he already had. Also, Ulfric's triumph was witnessed by Torygg's idiot wife, his whole court and his steward. So yeah.
    See the Jarl of Riften. Also Balgruuf and Idgrod the Crone have explicitly said killing the king made Ulfric nothing more than an usurper. And you're using the fact that every single person who saw Ulfric kill torygg now calls him an usurper as an argument. Think this through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Freeing his people from oppression of not being able to venerate their gods and from being beggered by taxes isn't wanting to change how Skyrim is ruled? Ulfric mentions how Skyrim is under heavy taxation at one point, and one confirmation of this is that Whiterun's walls are falling apart. Whiterun, the commercial capital of Skyrim.
    Afraid not. If you're bringing down the entire government for a different model, with the wholehearted support of the people, it's a revolution. If you're waging a personal war in order to take over the government, it's a coup. Ulfric only wants to change one thing: who's sitting on the throne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    By this logic, Ulfric saying that Skyrim for the Nords shouldn't count either. Especially as the Stormcloak soldiers by default treat you well regardless of race and thank you for helping Nurelion the Altmer if you do his quest. These quotes are used by the narrative in order to represent the default Imperial outlook. Just as it is for the Stormcloaks. And as Hammerfell showed in beating back the Thalmor; yes it was.
    You're missing the point. You can't look at individuals while examining politics due to an indistinguishable vision on what are the fringe elements. A group of imperials slaughter innocents, as your example dictated, you have to follow the imperial's line of thinking an answer these questions: Are they representing imperial wishes, or criminals to be judged? Now let's take the stormcloak side, when first visit windhelm, you are told about the dunmer situation in Windhelm and the general attitude of the people against the grey quarter. Are they representing Stormcloak's wishes, or criminals to be judged?
    Hammerfell didn't beat the thalmor back. No nation can stand up to the thalmor right now. If they didn't take place x over, they don't want place x yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Except the Stormcloaks are never shown doing so in any capacity that isn't Imperial Propoganda (Bear of Markarth). This NPC story is a good indicator because it's given by someone who doesn't support either side. Also, they have more sociopaths than the Stormcloaks. For instance, the torturer in Helgen, who's too caught up in his work to notice Alduin fucking shit up and that bitch captain who tries to kill you in the tutorial.
    See above. This isn't a matter of which side has murderers and sociopaths. It's extremely naive to think either doesn't. We know that your example of war criminals go against the imperial stance. Imperial court may or may not be so badly organized these men are not punished, but we have no info on that. Meanwhile, we have factual evidence from the nicest guy in skyrim(Brunwulf Free-Winter) that Ulfric has acknowledgingly refused help to dunmer on his hold when they are attacked by bandits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    They're not at war with Skyrim, they're supposed to be at war with a terrorist group. Yet they view ALL Nords as beasts. Or is racism alright when the Empire does it?
    No, both do it. They're at war. Do you think germans in america had it easy during world war II? The only difference here is that imperials on the stormcloak side + nords on the imperial side will have no prejudice, but will still be prejudiced against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Marginalizing and ridiculing the cultures of member states is not a good practice. The historical Roman Empire never even did it in this manner. And many Nords always resented the Imperialization of their country, which is why half the nation instantly threw beside Ulfric.
    Like I said, the empire never did any of that before the white-gold concordat. Skyrim was always free, even as part of the empire. The thalmor decided they didn't want that. The stormcloaks are misguided because their enemy isn't the empire, it's the Thalmor. The enemy of the WHOLE WORLD is the thalmor. But Ulfric can't keep his head away from the throne. Possibly from Thalmor brainwashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Agreed. But if Hammerfell can do it, Skyrim can as well.
    Hammerfell didn't do it. The Thalmor wasn't beaten back. Once again, if the Thalmor don't have place x, they don't want place x yet. No one can stand up to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Except that you can join the 'Cloaks before it is revealed that you're Dragonborn, right?
    Bad writing on bethesda's part here, not just with the stormcloak's part. everyone in the world sometimes acklowledge you as dragonborn, sometimes not. But I didn't mean that Ulfric's made an exception for the dragonborn, I meant the dragonborn just happenned to be an exception due to being extremely skilled or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    No it wont. Mostly because foreigners in Stormcloak-occupied cities will say that nothing much changes for them aside from getting slightly less commerce because the new guards exercise their free right not to buy from people they don't like.
    Ulfric's not in power yet. Stormcloak-occupied cities still aren't influenced by Ulfric's ideals. They just house his army.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Wow I wrote a lot...hmmm I wonder if most of it is even right...
    If what you wrote is a lot, I guess i'll need to start doing a ritual when I come to reply to this topic. Jeez.
    Last edited by Valenhil; 2012-12-01 at 10:11 PM.

  13. #6153
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    I miss Skyrim. I'm picking up this game again, but I'm kinda wondering if they fixed, or at least change certain things? Last I played was in March, so if anyone knows the answer to any of the following I'd be grateful:

    1) Did they fix followers not leveling with you? I remember when I met Lydia at level 6, she'll forever be level 6. I found a few follower fixes mod, but want to make sure the original game did not already fix them.
    2) Any essential mods that fixes game breaking bugs? I remember the game was riddled with uncompletable quests, events not starting, etc.
    3) Is magic still garbage compared to melee? Magic had a damage cap (+50% I think, while melee could keep going up and up) and even Master spells were garbage.
    4) Any mods out there that amps up the difficulty (maybe make mobs that level higher than... what was it, 35ish?) I am really only interested in graphical mods and mods that improve QoL without breaking lore. I like as close to vanilla experience without the vanilla bugs as possible.

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  14. #6154
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    I miss Skyrim. I'm picking up this game again, but I'm kinda wondering if they fixed, or at least change certain things? Last I played was in March, so if anyone knows the answer to any of the following I'd be grateful:

    1) Did they fix followers not leveling with you? I remember when I met Lydia at level 6, she'll forever be level 6. I found a few follower fixes mod, but want to make sure the original game did not already fix them.
    2) Any essential mods that fixes game breaking bugs? I remember the game was riddled with uncompletable quests, events not starting, etc.
    3) Is magic still garbage compared to melee? Magic had a damage cap (+50% I think, while melee could keep going up and up) and even Master spells were garbage.
    4) Any mods out there that amps up the difficulty (maybe make mobs that level higher than... what was it, 35ish?) I am really only interested in graphical mods and mods that improve QoL without breaking lore. I like as close to vanilla experience without the vanilla bugs as possible.
    - Get the Unnoficial Skyrim, Dawguard and Herthfire patches (for whatever you are using). They will fix hundreds of bugs.
    - UFO (Ultimate Follower Overhaul) will make many, many improvements.
    - ASIS, a mod for enemy AI (they will use potions, detect sneaking more realistically, etc.)
    - Deadly Combat will make combat more realistic (both you and the enemies take more damage, armor cap is harder to reach, stamina is more useful, but depletes quicker, etc.)
    - Enhanced High-Level Gameplay scales enemies over lvl 35
    - Deadly Dragons, for harder dragon fights
    - HBE (Hardcore Balanced Experience) will really make the game harder. You will get less gold, drops, vendors will have less stuff...

    All of them are available at the Skyrm Nexus. Check them out.

    EDIT: About magic... Well, it's still capped, as the only way to add damage is via perks. But, the damage is fairly decent. And you can always try an mod to add new spells, like Apocalypse Spell Package (lore friendly and balanced).
    Last edited by Ariakan; 2012-12-01 at 11:00 PM.

  15. #6155
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    I miss Skyrim. I'm picking up this game again, but I'm kinda wondering if they fixed, or at least change certain things? Last I played was in March, so if anyone knows the answer to any of the following I'd be grateful:

    1) Did they fix followers not leveling with you? I remember when I met Lydia at level 6, she'll forever be level 6. I found a few follower fixes mod, but want to make sure the original game did not already fix them.

    Unfortunately this is still the case for the most part, however like you mentioned, there are plenty of mods and other things to do to get around the issue. If you have the PC version you can even fix your follower with console commands. When I play, I just manually edit my followers stats via console and to ensure they aren't OP, I try to keep them in line with my character stat wise/skill wise. I have also heard that if you disable a follower via a console command and after you fire them, and then re-enable them, they will supposedly "reset" and will start at what ever level you are when you pick them back up. Theres also the Wabbajack trick for this. Also, it seems like the new Dawnguard followers level with you and have no level limit unlike most of the vanilla followers. I can't confirm because I am still new with Dawnguard, but Durak the orc archer seems to be a cut above the typical vanilla followers.

    2) Any essential mods that fixes game breaking bugs? I remember the game was riddled with uncompletable quests, events not starting, etc.

    Check out the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It has been going strong for a while and fixes a lot of those dumb things you mention. There are still plenty of bugs and issues, but this mod/patch definitely goes a long way to helping.

    3) Is magic still garbage compared to melee? Magic had a damage cap (+50% I think, while melee could keep going up and up) and even Master spells were garbage.

    Unfortunately magic still scales very poorly in late game. It is completely viable to go destruction, but once you get into the 30s you will encounter higher level enemies that will take long time to kill with magic. If you choose to go purely magic based, you will find that your illusion and conjuration schools of magic will end up more effective. To that end I actually created a pure mage that does not use any destruction at all and despite some issues in the early levels, i find the playstyle to be highly rewarding. On that note, there are mods out there however that buff magic and do more to further magic skills, even adding new spells. I know there are at least one or two mods that focus on balancing magic without making it overpowered though.

    4) Any mods out there that amps up the difficulty (maybe make mobs that level higher than... what was it, 35ish?) I am really only interested in graphical mods and mods that improve QoL without breaking lore. I like as close to vanilla experience without the vanilla bugs as possible.
    There are mods that do this as well. I think one that comes to mind is enhanced high level gameplay (or something along those lines). There are also mods that will add stronger "rare" monsters throughout the world that are extremely difficult but payoff with great loot (think dragon on steroids). Graphics mods are like crack to me with this game, i have it tweaked so much that it feels like a completely different game.

  16. #6156
    Can't go wrong with Skyrim Redone, Fhi. I got it and it's just so much better. It fixes most of the problems you mentioned, in fact.


  17. #6157
    Bloodsail Admiral Vathdar's Avatar
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    About this discussion if Ulfric and his stormcloaks are right or wrong, what about Ulfrics true masters? Haven't played Skyrim in a while but I don't remember their being any evidence to him not taking any orders from them anymore.

  18. #6158
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    There were people that outranked Ulfric?

  19. #6159
    Bloodsail Admiral Vathdar's Avatar
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    Eh, something like that, don't know how to use the spoiler blackout thingy otherwise i'd post it. : P
    You find out about it during the main quest line, in a journal inside the Thalmor Embassy so I don't know how people could miss it.

    It's in this http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/T...ric_Stormcloak
    Last edited by Vathdar; 2012-12-02 at 04:07 AM.

  20. #6160
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I completely forgot about that. Though, I'm not sure if that means that he actually answers to them, rather than he's just being manipulated.

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