The League of Legends thread

[Deleted]

You didn't even try his build, you just went full AD on Karma and made the unfair assumption that (even though he is in silver rank now) he hasn't even tried his own builds yet.
Your comparison to a koala bear is unreasonable. I never said that "He went into silver, so now he's a pro". Your comparison would be valid if you said "I went to the zoo earlier, now I've petted a koala bear".

Because I am of a skill level where I can make pretty much any build work in bot games. I am, however, not prepared to drop my league position in ranked (96 points, 30 games played) playing a Triforce Vlad. Because, here's the kicker, Rankeds aren't anything close to bot games.

[Kaelwryn]

I went to get placed, to be honest, just to remove the argument that I'm inexperienced because I'm not placed. It just moves to "I'm inexperienced because I've not got thousands of ranked wins" or "I'm inexperienced because I'm not Plat I", but it's a start.

It's like being the new guy on a job. Yeah, you might've gone from being Rookie to Member but you're still the most inexperience person. Most people aren't going to give much time to what you say because of that. They're more likely to listen the seasoned members, and for good reason. They've been around for awhile, know what's what. That's not to say you're always wrong, or that you shouldn't be listened to. Just means that you really need to bring something compelling to the table.

Also I'd honestly wait awhile before coming in and saying "LOOK LOOK! MY BUILD WORKS" you've only played what? a few days. let's see how well they work with like a week long run. Nothing is proven in a day's work. If there's one thing science has taught me, its that run of experimentation is almost never enough. I think more people would be inclined to give you credibility after you've played ranked for awhile. That's how most people in the world gain reputation and credibility.

[Deleted]

Do you mean you're in Silver 5 trying to drop down to Bronze? Get to 0 points and wait 30 days for your LP to decay and you will drop down.

No I can't drop lower I'm currently at -51 points in silver 2 and I just won't go to silver 3

[Deleted]

*Nods to Utility Masteries*

Are you honest to god suggesting Utility masteries for Shyvana?

No. You need the tankyness that the Defensive Tree provides; and you need the early-game damage for brawling and clearing your jungle that the Offensive tree provides.

Unfortunately, gold does not equal a stat's true value of effectiveness in the game, and in addition to this, the idea of gold-efficiency isn't quite complete yet (things like percentage movement speed worth 15g per %, Armor Penetration worth 1.5g per point). Once I've thought of a way to rebalance it via some kind of EP values, I'll get back to you.

You're absolutely right, gold isn't the only thing we need to focus on when buying items. Which is why I used the Spirit Stones items and Wriggle's who all provide stats which Shyvana can make use of. The question now though, is which item provides the best stats for the lowest price.

In raw gold-efficiency the Spirit Stone items win, big time. And when it comes to stats, the Spirit Stone items win. Big time. Let's have.. yet another.. look at them, yes? -- We're excluding the passives and actives simply because, again, the ones on the Spirit Stone items exceed the Wriggle's, as explained in my last post, you'll gain more clear with 30% damage increase on your W and Q than mere 100 damage on each hit (200 per Q as it proccs it twice).

Wriggle's stats: 25 Armor, 25 AD and 15% Lifesteal
EL: 35 AD, 10% CDR, 14 HP5
AG: 500 Health, 10% CDR, 14 HP5

Just looking at the stats, how can you not see how the Spirit Stones are outclassing Wriggles, by far?
You gain more tankyness with 500 HP than 25 Armor; HP works against AP as well as AD.
CDR is huge for Shyvana.
EL will give you more damage output, even without the passive.

In every way the Spirit Stones will outclass Wriggle's. Both raw stats and gold-efficiency.

So, Wriggles!

No, as I explained, Wriggle's is a terrible, terrible item and should not be purchased. Do I really need to link the video of OddOne explaining Wriggle's is useless? This is coming from a person who has written endless guides for almost every jungle champion out there since the beginning of eSports. This is coming from a guy who's getting paid to play the game and come up with the best possible builds for the champions he plays. How can you, a guy who just recently hit level 30, argue with that?

Wriggle's doesn't even give you any attack speed, or on-hit to boost your damage. It gives you 25 AD and 15% Lifesteal, which quite frankly isn't worth 2000g.

Agree with Bulwark, disagree with Locket (more suited to a support).

...

It's not more suited for a support, no. As Shyvana (and every jungler that aren't assassins [Kha'Zix, Zed, Rengar]) your job is to be as tanky as possible; and your job is to get tanky very quickly. Locket is cheap and will boost your damage (CDR) as well as make you very tanky, very early. This will also allow for your support to be focusing on other items, and most important, wards. Locket brings stats that every single bruiser/tank wants in a cheap item.

...this is exactly what I've been saying...


Seems alright, quite generic, but the problem with the long post is that you lost focus on what you actually wanted... you talk about onhit AS for output, then tankiness (which is obvious if you want to counter her squishy nature), forgetting what you said previously.

I don't care about generic, fact is, everything's generic if you want maximum output, that's what we're going for here. Maximum output.

And no, I didn't lose focus. My entire point of the post was to explain to you how Shyvana worked as a champion; what her role was in-game, why she was picked and what her kit meant. I talk about how to maximize her damage, that's it. To let you know what to build in order to get damage, so you know which items to look for. My entire post didn't revolve around which items that'd boost her damage the most. However your role as Shyvana isn't to get damage out. It never was. It's to be tanky, annoying, a pain in the ass for the enemy carries (as far as teamfights goes).

Shyvana's not squishy by nature either (have you read her abilities????); she gains a passive armor and magic resist of 10/15/20 from her ultimate, that doesn't make her squishy by nature.

Proof (see above)? All I'm doing is challenging what seems to be very entrenched ideas (either from habit, or, ironically, stubbornness) with obvious options.

Let's have an example here, of Shyvana. As I've understood, your build would include Wriggles, Zephyr and Ninja Tabi. Alright, let's look at the stats:

50 AD, 15% LS, 50 Armor, 10% CDR, 50% AS, 10% MS

5850g in total.

My build being AG, Ninja Tabi, Aegis:

750 Health, 45 Armor, 10% CDR, 14 HP5, 20 MR -- Plus the 10 Armor, 15 MR and 10 HP5 to my team.

5150g in total. Giving me 700g to buy another item of my choice. Could be more armor, MR, health or some damage item if I feel like it.

Now, alright, looking at the stats here who do you think is going to be the most useful in a teamfight when you take Shyvana's kit into the equation? The guy with base health, no MR and 50 armor; or the guy with +750 Health, 45 Armor, 20 MR and a big buff to his team, making his team even tankier?

Your champion would get blown up in an instant. Without hesitation. You are an initiatior, not an assassin or a peeler. You have no peel for your carries and you have no burst to kill enemy squishies. So your only option is sit back and kill enemy tanks and bruisers diving your carry. You have no damage; sure, you have some CDR and AS; but barely any AD and no on-hit effects. Your Tabi will be useless before they'll simply put.. ignore you. You can't run around and kite, even with your added 10% MS, because, well, why would you..

My carries will ignore you, while your carries are forced to deal with me because I won't get blown up and I'm in their face.

I don't need to build any damage items early because I've got the runes to compensate for it. Yes, my damage will fall off lategame, but that doesn't matter because I'll have an item to boost my damage by then.

Let's try with your TriForce Vladimir.

Gold cost: 3843g. This allows me to buy eiither of the following:

Deathcap (3300g), Hourglass (3260g), Void Staff (2295g), Liandry's (2900g), Rylai's (2900g), WotA (2550g), SotSW (2000g), Spirit Visage (2200g), Abyssal (2560g) - Basically, any item in the game.

Alright, stats and passives that will boost Vladimir's potential, role in a teamfight and kit from TriForce:
30 AP, 250 HP, 8% MS.
That's it. You paid 3843g for these stats. The rest of the stats and passive are all useless for Vladimir and his kit.

Now let's compare it to any of the items I listed.

Want tankyness? Rylais, Hourglass, Abyssal - More damage, more HP, and additional passive that will boost everything Vladimir has to offer.
Want to kite? Rylais. Cheaper, more health, more AP.
Want damage? Deathcap. Void Staff. Abyssal. Liandry's.
Want sustain? Deathcap, SotSW, WotA, SV. Simply because of Vladimir's passive spell vamp you'll be more tanky having a Deathcap than TriForce.

Every single item that I've listed synergizes in some way with Vladimir's abilities. Every single item listed gives more stats that Vladimir wants than TriForce does; and they're all cheaper. Another plus is the item pathing. I don't have to sit around on a Sheen waiting for 2643g. (I believe your example of when this item should be built was as the very last item, therefore you only have one slot in your inventory)

Meanwhile, for the same price of 1200g that is Sheen I can get: Blasting Wand (Deathcap, Void Staff, Rylai's) for more damage, Hextech Revolver for the spellvamp, Negatron Cloak for MR (Abyssal), Giant's Belt for health (Rylai's), Seeker's Armsguard (Hourglass).

There is always a better option than running TriForce on Vladimir, no matter how many times you turn or flip the board. It's not going to change facts.



---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 02:56 PM ----------

You didn't even try his build, you just went full AD on Karma and made the unfair assumption that (even though he is in silver rank now) he hasn't even tried his own builds yet.
Your comparison to a koala bear is unreasonable. I never said that "He went into silver, so now he's a pro". Your comparison would be valid if you said "I went to the zoo earlier, now I've petted a koala bear".

He hasn't tried his build yet. He doesn't even own Shyvana as he said a couple posts earlier, if I recall. He has tried Trinity Force Vladimir. That's it.

And no, he didn't claim he was pro. He did, however, come in and say "I'm now placed in a division, I'm experienced now!".

[Deleted]

And no, he didn't claim he was pro.

Daily reminder that 'pro' just means you make money playing, it has a loose at best connection with your skill.

[Aydinx2]

And no, he didn't claim he was pro. He did, however, come in and say "I'm now placed in a division, I'm experienced now!".

He specifically said that he just went into ranked to get placed. He also mentioned how the argument would shift to other variations of "you're not experienced".

[Boomcats]

I've been playing against a ton of Jayce top, I'm talking like EVERY OTHER GAME. I don't want to waste a ban on him either, but he has been killing me lately.

Any tips on counters or anything? I have just been taking Ryze top, losing early but outscaling him hard late (to some success) but... I'm at the point where I'm losing more LP then winning now so I can't keep up a 50% win rate against him.

[Aydinx2]

Daily reminder that 'pro' just means you make money playing, it has a loose at best connection with your skill.

Well the fact that a company is willing to offer you money should imply a higher skill level.
Pro does mean that you get money for doing it, but to be honest it would better apply to the fact that a person is highly skilled, as there are plenty of things that a person does for money without being regarded pro.

[Deleted]

I've been playing against a ton of Jayce top, I'm talking like EVERY OTHER GAME. I don't want to waste a ban on him either, but he has been killing me lately.

Any tips on counters or anything? I have just been taking Ryze top, losing early but outscaling him hard late (to some success) but... I'm at the point where I'm losing more LP then winning now so I can't keep up a 50% win rate against him.

Get some lessons from Zelgius.
Pick Jarvan.
Win game.

Well the fact that a company is willing to offer you money should imply a higher skill level.

But not necessarily. Case in point: Na'vi's new all-female team.

Pro does mean that you get money for doing it, but to be honest it would better apply to the fact that a person is highly skilled

Then just call them 'really digdagnabbety awesomelyfied at this here personal computing software thingofajig'

[Deleted]

Daily reminder that 'pro' just means you make money playing, it has a loose at best connection with your skill.

Never said otherwise.

[Deleted]

You guys also missed the Locket being more for supports. Not like most utility junglers build it because it's extremely cheap, strong and offers very good stats and builds out of a very common item (ruby).

I got over 50 pentakills in bot games, maybe 3 in normals. Can someone just stomp him and any idea he thinks is good and end this endless, useless argument?

[Deleted]

Welp, that's it. All those players paid to play the game, who have time and time again proven they are the best in the region have been doing it wrong this entire time. Stop the LCS.

But he's right

Junglers are supports

[Deleted]

You guys also missed the Locket being more for supports. Not like most utility junglers build it because it's extremely cheap, strong and offers very good stats and builds out of a very common item (ruby).

I got over 50 pentakills in bot games, maybe 3 in normals. Can someone just stomp him and any idea he thinks is good and end this endless, useless argument?

I've invited him for a game in the 'Plat v Silver' but he hasn't responded.

[Aydinx2]

But not necessarily. Case in point: Na'vi's new all-female team.

I take it you're referring to the Siren's?
They confirmed the "rule" by being an exception. They did disband so I guess that's done.

[Deleted]

I take it you're referring to the Siren's?
They confirmed the "rule" by being an exception. They did disband so I guess that's done.

No, I meant Na'vi's new all-female squad. This one.
I'm not sure if the Sirens even had a sponsor. It didn't show up in their intro video so.

[Aydinx2]

No, I meant Na'vi's new all-female squad. This one.
I'm not sure if the Sirens even had a sponsor. It didn't show up in their intro video so.

They just keep popping up, like weeds, or tumor's.

[Deleted]

What blue runes should I be using when jungling? Mr per level? AS?

[Deleted]

What blue runes should I be using when jungling? Mr per level? AS?

x4 flat mr
x5 mr/lvl

[Deleted]

What blue runes should I be using when jungling? Mr per level? AS?

MR/lvl/Flat MR split usually. Can get CDR on select champs

[Deleted]

Oh. Split between flat and per level? Alright. I had no idea. Thanks you two.

Wish me luck to my promotion to Silver 2 (lololololol)