The League of Legends thread

[Deleted]

Well Vlad isn't going to be going top against Dota heroes is he, so why do they even need to be raised? It adds nothing to the active conversation and is therefore spam posting.

Like I already told you.
20:37 - Zefie: I'm not saying "LoL is easy because DotA is hard."
20:37 - Zefie: I'm saying "LoL is easy because I've had practice in a tougher environment"
20:37 - Zefie: (This applies only to lasthitting, mind you)

[Deleted]

The point was that Vlad is at a disadvantage to other tops because of how much harder his animation is to last hit with. I don't see how dota even gets a place in the discussion. If you look ONLY at LoL champions (since that's who he will be facing..) then he is at a disadvantage. How can the point be argued with "LoL is easy because I've had practice in a tougher environment"?

Because enemy minions almost never take spike damage, if I do 50 damage per attack and my animation is 0.75 seconds long and the enemy does 50 damage per attack and his animation is 0.5 seconds long, the only difference is that I have to start attacking 0.25 seconds earlier than he does.

[Deleted]

A point made by Caine was that Vlad was at a disadvantage in top with his awful animation.

Just going to clarify so that I am misunderstood: the point I made was the Vlad has a weak early game and thus can be more challenging to play well than "just qwer to win", with one of reasons being the worst AA animation of pretty much all relevant champions. It's just that it's the AA animation that got brought up and ended up being discussed more in-depth. :)

Because enemy minions almost never take spike damage, if I do 50 damage per attack and my animation is 0.75 seconds long and the enemy does 50 damage per attack and his animation is 0.5 seconds long, the only difference is that I have to start attacking 0.25 seconds earlier than he does.

And as I said earlier, that's a quarter of second you stand still longer than your enemy, a quarter of second earlier you have to be in the position. It does not sound like a lot, I know, but I firmly believe that those 250 milliseconds are a longer time than you seem to think it is. (Also, difference between Vlad and, for example, Ahri or Zyra is more :P)

[Deleted]

And as I said earlier, that's a quarter of second you stand still longer than your enemy, a quarter of second earlier you have to be in the position. It does not sound like a lot, I know, but I firmly believe that those 250 milliseconds are a longer time than you seem to think it is. (Also, difference between Vlad and, for example, Ahri or Zyra is more :P)

It doesn't really matter THAT much though. You can hit the enemy any time he's between 50 and 1 health and you're still gonna get the same amount of gold.

Yes, the disadvantage in my eyes comes from the fact that you have to pay more attention than the enemy does (at least until you're completely used to Vlad) His low base damage as well as the animation makes it far more difficult to last hit than it would on someone like Jayce for example

I wouldn't really say that, when it comes to CS, it's as much a disadvantage as it's something you have to learn through experience. You could argue that you have to use more of your cognitive capabilities than the enemy does and that might make you mess up in other areas but if you already have enough "space" for that thought to turn into action without disturbing the rest of your gameplay, it barely does anything.

[Deleted]

Which is why I said until you're completely used to Vlad, it does divide your attention.

Didn't take more than a few bot games really.

There isn't much more to say, I used it as an example to show how useless bringing dota champions into it was, that's all

Maybe linking a Lina video was over the top but all I ever did besides that was explain exactly why I thought it was easy, can you really fault me for that?

[Ellesarr]

Which is why I said until you're completely used to Vlad, it does divide your attention. There isn't much more to say,

that is to a certain extend true for every champion, and it should be obvious that if you dont know how to do everything optimal on a specific champion you are at a disadvantage if you are facing someone who does. thats not specific to vlad though. Does that mean some champions are harder to play/master? most likely. does that mean those champions have a disadvantage? I dont think so.

[Toxigen]

Animations play a pretty small role because CS isn't a fight between you and the enemy, it's a fight between you and the creeps. The creeps aren't gonna very suddenly take less or more damage than before, all you gotta do is time it.

I typically enjoy your posts, Lyco, but this is simply wrong. I know you're trying to make a point about DOTA last-hitting being more difficult than LOL (which it is, 100%, no one is going to argue that).

However, at high levels of play, harass and trading is timed according to when opponents are going to last hit. Sure, you can time an auto well and last hit with ease against a sub-average player. Anyone with half a brain is going to constantly try to win trades by timing their offense with your last-hit autos. In fact, its pretty easy to not miss a single CS without any pressure from your opponent.

So, no, CS is not just a fight between you and the creeps. Opponents that focus entirely on CS are pretty easy to beat.

[Deleted]

Did I not use the term mechanically enough?
Alright, here we go.
Mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically.
That should be enough.

Funny thing

Animations play a pretty small role because CS isn't a fight between you and the enemy, it's a fight between you and the creeps. The creeps aren't gonna very suddenly take less or more damage than before, all you gotta do is time it.

"Mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically, mechanically,"

Funny, that is never mentioned. I pointed out in a newplayer friendly way how CSing is anything but a fight between you and creeps, but I guess it was lost to you when all you can read is "whoosh".

Eh, it's not that long.

Yes, it is that long and it should be abused by any competent lane opponent

[dengatron]

vlad and kennen have the least responsive auto attacks in game. kennens wave clear sucks until around 300 ap(not that easy considering the usual build orders on kennen), where as vlad turns into a monster farm machine by level 12-13. vlads main problem is that while attempting to cs early game, his q is 13 seconds, his e drains a ton of health, and his auto attack is weak and clunky. vlad is particularly bad against people that have high enough damage to make him farm under turret(he can't kill ranged creeps even with the attack/turretshot/attack action) and people that can abuse his poor early sustain.

This point though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Beyond pushing into the tower or rightclicking them down in general, how does it affect their CS and not their relative CS? You could force a trade but you won't get in more than a minuscule amount of hits.

denying cs as vlad is harder because it's nearly impossible to zone most common tops, and harder to trade earlier levels. the first 10 minutes of the game is by far the most important time for a top lane, and that's when vlad is weakest.

[Deleted]

Eh, let me just state a few indisputable facts instead of the "It matters!" "It matters not!" game.

• The delay between the moment you click on a minion and the moment projectile launches is considerably longer on Vlad than on any other relevant champion.
• This is time you need to spend standing still and this is time any other champion would not have to spend standing still, thus it is time lost - thing you can only call a disadvantage, however small it is.
  
  1. If you build up several small disadvantages you get a big one out of them.
• This time can, should and will be abused by enemy champion in order to disrupt your CS in some way.
• No matter how used you get to the AA animation it will take the same amount of time. Getting used to it will make lasthitting without outside interference easier, but will not affect the time you are standing still before the projectile launches.
• In early game the likeliness of being able to farm without outside interference is close to nil.

I'm just in angry mode because I'm sick of dota vs LoL atm, I decided to pick on that point, sorry

Oh, I'm not angry or anything. It was really just a clarification to prevent any misunderstandings from coming up if this talk goes on for a longer time.

[Bombkirby]

To explain my point in another words: the time from the moment of clicking the creep to the moment you can retreat into safe distance is higher on Vlad than on other champions. Even if I time it well and projectile lands perfectly in time to get that CS I have to click earlier and stand in potentially dangerous spot for a longer time.

If I had to guess they did that on purpose since he's rather hard to push out of lane with his never ending supply of health and mana compared to your typical mana hungry champ.

[Deleted]

Vlad drunk as f*ck, slapping blood at minions and shit.

Anyway, Vlad is one of those champions that you'll fuck up with the first time, the 2nd/3rd time it's tricky and after that you get the grasp of things. Once you get used to his animation you won't have any problems lasthitting.

[Lyriok]

Once you get used to his animation you won't have any problems lasthitting.

This is exactly it.

Playing Vlad you should have a potentially higher CS once you get used to the animation as you have an advantage.

Example.

2 minions are about to die, autoattack one and Q the other so that you can get both rather than just one.

Really can't wait for Season 3, really looking forward to the new jungle along with items.

[Thallidomaniac]

Why do people seem to think Darius counters Garen? I see no reason for it considering Garen has the things Darius hates, which is the ability to trade with him while having sustain. Seems more like a lane where it can go either way depending on who gets ahead with jungler assistance, but still in favor of Garen when even.

Because they associate Darius to be a "strictly better" version of Garen just because of the snowballing potential with his ult. Second, Darius can build all tank items and still do reasonable damage, while Garen has to build at least some damage items (Brutalizer and IE come to mind) to not be considered a non-factor damage-wise in teamfights. Third, Darius can essentially negate Garen's passive by harrassing with Q or melee attacks to keep hemo stacks up.

On another note, Guinsoo tweeted these comments about Karma's rework:

I'm getting excited for Karma. I'm buffing her Mantra Soul Shield today. It's not viable or interesting compared to Q or W

I'm feeling frisky, so here's what we're trying with Karma's Mantra Soul Shield: "Stuns in an area around the target, damaging targets...

... and shielding the target based upon how many targets were hit."

Dear Lord, the possibilities with this are just...

[Maelle]

Because they associate Darius to be a "strictly better" version of Garen just because of the snowballing potential with his ult. Second, Darius can build all tank items and still do reasonable damage, while Garen has to build at least some damage items (Brutalizer and IE come to mind) to not be considered a non-factor damage-wise in teamfights. Third, Darius can essentially negate Garen's passive by harrassing with Q or melee attacks to keep hemo stacks up.

On another note, Guinsoo tweeted these comments about Karma's rework:

I'm getting excited for Karma. I'm buffing her Mantra Soul Shield today. It's not viable or interesting compared to Q or W

I'm feeling frisky, so here's what we're trying with Karma's Mantra Soul Shield: "Stuns in an area around the target, damaging targets...

... and shielding the target based upon how many targets were hit."

Dear Lord, the possibilities with this are just...

Are they reworking her into a more mid lane or support based role? Or some kind of mix of both...

[Thallidomaniac]

Are they reworking her into a more mid lane or support based role? Or some kind of mix of both...

They intend on making Karma viable in the 0 CS support role. She can do that currently, but is a lot less effective at the role compared to the traditional 0 CS supports. They are probably trying to rework her more along the lines of Lulu level of support instead of an assault one such as Lux.

Master Yi and LeBlanc are getting new splash artwork!

[Tradu]

They intend on making Karma viable in the 0 CS support role. She can do that currently, but is a lot less effective at the role compared to the traditional 0 CS supports. They are probably trying to rework her more along the lines of Lulu level of support instead of an assault one such as Lux.

Master Yi and LeBlanc are getting new splash artwork!

Who is the champion between Yi and Nami in the new icons part of the article? Only one I could think of is Mordekaiser, but his current icon isn't the one to the left.

[Thallidomaniac]

Who is the champion between Yi and Nami in the new icons part of the article? Only one I could think of is Mordekaiser, but his current icon isn't the one to the left.

That is Morde, he and Brand are also getting new splash artwork next patch. It appears that they made a small tweak to his icon by zooming it out slightly, same with the new Pantheon icon.

[Tradu]

That is Morde, he and Brand are also getting new splash artwork next patch.

It just doesn't fit the way the rest of the list is set up(old to the left, new to the right), thats why I was confused.

[NotValidAnymore]

I never thought I said this, but I wish there were more silly arguments about LoL & Dota, more of Silkku's personal vendetta against Lycoris, more posts about how hard it is to last-hit as Vlad, something, I'm bored.