The League of Legends thread

[Firebert]

Have a look: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...im-build-guide

Disagree with 4/4 Awareness though, he doesn't say why he takes it.

Quite an interesting read to be honest.

[Axethor]

Some of the people who write guides on solomid (including TheOddOne) also suggest a 0/9/21 build. Have a look: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...im-build-guide

Well I guess it works for Hecarim. This is the first I've seen of it though. I'll have to give it a spin myself eventually. However, doesn't change the fact that it is subpar for most junglers.

---------- Post added 2013-06-06 at 06:08 PM ----------

Disagree with 4/4 Awareness though, he doesn't say why he takes it.

Quite an interesting read to be honest.

If your going to go the utility tree as a jungler, awareness is just a bonus. Junglers get reduced exp in the jungler, so this lets you keep up a bit more than normal.

[Duilliath]

Disagree with 4/4 Awareness though, he doesn't say why he takes it.

Quite an interesting read to be honest.

Because it's by far the best place to spend 4 points. Hecarim wants levels for his ult.

Let's go over the alternatives:
Summoner's Insight: you use none of the summoner's spells
Wanderer: Only works out of combat, additionally Hecarim doesn't need the movement speed to get around the map
Articifer: Hardly worth it for only Locket of the Iron Solari
Greed: An option, as Hecarim likes gold. I would much prefer an earlier level 6 though.
Wealth: Is not going to make a bit enough difference.

[Deleted]

Well I guess it works for Hecarim. This is the first I've seen of it though. I'll have to give it a spin myself eventually. However, doesn't change the fact that it is subpar for most junglers.

Well, I was only talking about him :P Haven't seen it anywhere else, and was skeptical myself when I first saw it.

[Firebert]

Because it's by far the best place to spend 4 points.

Until he hits 18, and then it becomes useless.

Finishing Expanded Mind and Strength of Spirit would be a slightly better use of the points, if only that they synergise.

I've already said I'd go Greed/Wealth, anyway.

[Deleted]

Until he hits 18, and then it becomes useless.

Finishing Expanded Mind and Strength of Spirit would be a slightly better use of the points, if only that they synergise.

I've already said I'd go Greed/Wealth, anyway.

Well Hecarim is an unstoppable, unkillable monster late game, he just has to get there as fast as possible. Keep in mind level advantage is a pretty big thing early game and transitioning into mid-game. And Hecarim's early game is the only point where he's lacking.

[NotValidAnymore]

Just wanna put my two cents here:

The reason you want to go 21 Defense on most junglers is that your primary objective is to be a tank. Of course, it's different if you opt for a damage jungler or something, but then you'd better have someone tanky in lane or your team is going to suffer.

While there are some great masteries in Utility (movement speed is always great, and who can say no to extra experience?), I seriously don't think there is enough reason to go for those masteries, compared to Offense which gives you more clearing and killing power, and Defense which gives you a lot more survivability.

I mean, you can get away with 21 Utility if you play Warwick who can just survive forever, but if the enemy jungler is smart and gets the idea to find you and kill you, you're out of luck, and you're going to be behind.

Besides, things like Life Steal/Spell Vamp, CDR and stuff aren't hard to come by on today's items. Trust me, Attack Speed is expensive now, and really helps some junglers clear, and depending on what kinda jungler you play, you'll want to either make an impact when you gank, or in team fights. If you go Utility, people are going to laugh at you, because you'll have no killing power, and you'll have no survivability.

The only people I would recommend go for Utility, are experienced people who know they're going to be fine early game.

Last thing: you're not supposed to solo an entire blue buff. Ask your team to help you. What else are they going to do early game? Not to mention, giving blue/red to them later is a privilege you give them, not a right for them, so if they don't help you, don't have them expect you to help them. It's only fair.

EDIT: Masteries are for shoring up your early game weaknesses, and help you at that stage. Same with Runes. That's why Awareness is a good mastery. Masteries that scale to late-game are just some nice bonuses. Most of those things can be gotten through items late anyway.

[Thallidomaniac]

Last thing: you're not supposed to solo an entire blue buff. Ask your team to help you. What else are they going to do early game? Not to mention, giving blue/red to them later is a privilege you give them, not a right for them, so if they don't help you, don't have them expect you to help them. It's only fair.

Sometimes, it's hard to trust your teammates to do these things, especially if you're in a cesspool like Bronze V.

[Firebert]

Last thing: you're not supposed to solo an entire blue buff. Ask your team to help you. What else are they going to do early game?

Defend the central river and red.

Not to mention, giving blue/red to them later is a privilege you give them, not a right for them, so if they don't help you, don't have them expect you to help them. It's only fair.

I understand that soloing Blue, gifting them blue and red late-game and ganking where I can isn't exactly fair on me, I feel that jungling is just a step above being a Support, so the meta is designed such that it's not supposed to be fair for me.

Masteries are for shoring up your early game weaknesses, and help you at that stage. Same with Runes. That's why Awareness is a good mastery. Masteries that scale to late-game are just some nice bonuses. Most of those things can be gotten through items late anyway.

So anything that scales is bad?

---------- Post added 2013-06-06 at 11:33 PM ----------

Sometimes, it's hard to trust your teammates to do these things, especially if you're in a cesspool like Bronze V.

Which is where I'm probably going to end up anyway. :3

I'm 6 games into seeding now and am 4-2, 100% record on Teemo and Warwick (although that's not saying much).

[NotValidAnymore]

Defend the central river and red.

If the enemies weren't there by the time blue spawns at 1:55, then they're not going to come. Your laners might as well help damage blue a bit.

I understand that soloing Blue, gifting them blue and red late-game and ganking where I can isn't exactly fair on me, I feel that jungling is just a step above being a Support, so the meta is designed such that it's not supposed to be fair for me.

It's up to you if you want to be their teammate or their pet.

So anything that scales is bad?

No, but the main focus is helping you early. Things that scale are nice, but not the MAIN focus. Sorry for not being clear.

[gamhacked]

If the enemies weren't there by the time blue spawns at 1:55, then they're not going to come. Your laners might as well help damage blue a bit.

When I'm top or mid, I help my jungler get his target down to 20% 90% of the time. When I'm top the mid laner often doesn't bother helping with blue at all, which tends to fuck my lane as I play aggressively and therefore arriving at my lane first is of immense importance. I never understand why at least a few hits for your jungler are that difficult. I'm sure you can land 3-5 attacks on blue before even losing any minions mid.

[Firebert]

If the enemies weren't there by the time blue spawns at 1:55, then they're not going to come. Your laners might as well help damage blue a bit.

Or rush to lane faster for a leg up on CS farming. Being able to solo Blue gives them that option at least.

It's up to you if you want to be their teammate or their pet.

Jungling is being a pet, as you're babysitting lanes with ganks, no?

No, but the main focus is helping you early. Things that scale are nice, but not the MAIN focus. Sorry for not being clear.

No problem. I know things like 4/4 Durability are required for Vet's Scars (the usual 9-point off-defensive option), so sometimes scling's required for a decent level 1 buff, and the flipside of what you're saying is you take scaling things if your early-game is OK (say, scaling MR on an ADC for team fights). Which is what I do anyway.

EDIT: I mean, if people come to blue with me, I tell them I can solo it. If they say they wanna help me anyway, I'm not going to argue.

[Axethor]

When I'm top or mid, I help my jungler get his target down to 20% 90% of the time. When I'm top the mid laner often doesn't bother helping with blue at all, which tends to fuck my lane as I play aggressively and therefore arriving at my lane first is of immense importance. I never understand why at least a few hits for your jungler are that difficult. I'm sure you can land 3-5 attacks on blue before even losing any minions mid.

I use whatever ability I took once and throw 1-2 autos if I'm mid. Being ahead of your opponent exp wise in mid can make or break certain matchups. It's probably the most exp focused lane. If you don't go at all that is being selfish, but I at least help a little. It's all I expect when I jungle as well, so it's only fair imo.

---------- Post added 2013-06-06 at 06:52 PM ----------

Or rush to lane faster for a leg up on CS farming. Being able to solo Blue gives them that option at least.


Jungling is being a pet, as you're babysitting lanes with ganks, no?

Your concept of jungling is severly warped. I'm sorry, but it's true. A jungler's job is to open up a two more solo lanes (top and the jungle). Your not there to the beck and call of your laners, even if they think so. Your job is to farm up while providing lane pressure. You don't need to gank to provide pressure, you just need to scare them a bit by walking through wards really. Different junglers also excel in different areas. Maokai is a great ganker. Trynd is a super farmer. Lee Sin wants to play hunt the jungler. Nunu is Satan. Ganking junglers should be ganking, yes, but WW certainly is not a ganking jungler. He can't gank for shit pre-6, and post-6 only when his ult is up. He's a farmer and counter-jungler.

Also, your laners helping you clear blue ends up with a faster clear for you (and more lane pressure) at the expense of 1-2 minions. Only mid is really effected by this, and the enemy laner will be in the same position unless they are selfish.

[Firebert]

Your concept of jungling is severly warped. I'm sorry, but it's true.

Hey, what do you expect from a relatively new player that sees other junglers get called from pillar to post? :P

You don't need to gank to provide pressure, you just need to scare them a bit by walking through wards really.

My E passive does that job amazingly (half the time!).

[Axethor]

My E passive does that job amazingly (half the time!).

Well this is a different problem. Chances are that means there is no ward and you might of had a chance to gank (but your WW, so probably not). As WW, E should never be on until you go in for the gank. It gives away your position on the map when you don't want it to, which lets other laners know where you are and to apply pressure. Walking through ward you have no control over and they are in common gank spots, which is why it's good for a little lane pressure. Your E will give you away no matter where you are, so it's not exactly what you want. Also, if someone is low enough to proc it, either your laners are just as low, so it's a bad time to gank, or they are stupid and losing lane, so you can focus elsewhere.

[sarasun]

As WW, E should never be on until you go in for the gank. It gives away your position on the map when you don't want it to, which lets other laners know where you are and to apply pressure.

You've got it all reversed. Your E should always be activated until you go for a gank. You should then deactivate it and reactivate it once you're sure the ennemies saw you. It happens VERY rarely, but sometimes your E will spot someone low HP around you when you did not expect it at all. It also reduces the amount of times you miss a kill because you forgot to activate E :P

[Firebert]

You've got it all reversed. Your E should always be activated until you go for a gank. You should then deactivate it and reactivate it once you're sure the ennemies saw you. It happens VERY rarely, but sometimes your E will spot someone low HP around you when you did not expect it at all. It also reduces the amount of times you miss a kill because you forgot to activate E :P

I leave it on all the time. By the half-hour mark enemies are sure that I never turn it off, and the range of it is so large it's more or less ignored.

Sure, it's more skilful to activate it and deactivate it, but as you can tell I prefer leaving passives be.

EDIT: First win of the day, with the IP boost, 427 IP. <3

[Tradu]

When I'm top or mid, I help my jungler get his target down to 20% 90% of the time. When I'm top the mid laner often doesn't bother helping with blue at all, which tends to fuck my lane as I play aggressively and therefore arriving at my lane first is of immense importance. I never understand why at least a few hits for your jungler are that difficult. I'm sure you can land 3-5 attacks on blue before even losing any minions mid.

When I play ranged mids, I help my jungler for as long as I can(1 ability + a few autos). But on melee mids(which are what I play most of the time), I can't do that, because I'd have to run around the blue "pit" to get into lane, and end up losing AT LEAST 2 minions, which is fairly significant if I'm planning to get a kill/force them out of lane at level 2/3(depends if I can do it with 2 abilities, or if the 3rd is important to my combo)

[sarasun]

When I play ranged mids, I help my jungler for as long as I can(1 ability + a few autos). But on melee mids(which are what I play most of the time), I can't do that, because I'd have to run around the blue "pit" to get into lane, and end up losing AT LEAST 2 minions, which is fairly significant if I'm planning to get a kill/force them out of lane at level 2/3(depends if I can do it with 2 abilities, or if the 3rd is important to my combo)

In that case, top is supposed to help. What most people have been doing is have the top share the wolves XP and give a smiteless. He misses about 2 minions, but the wolves XP balance that out and everyone is happy.

[Aydinx2]

why do Riot give everyone 400 RP when they hit level 3?

So you get a taste of skins.
You will be sitting on some left over RP and have a nice skin for a champion you like, causing you to want more.

It's a very common sales tactic.