The League of Legends thread

[Duilliath]

Having Nidalee around, even in a support build, would then be worthless. Because without AP, she literally has nothing to bring to the game.

No. Her AS boost on heal remains the same no matter how much AP she has. Her traps do the exact same with 0 AP. Her spears do enough damage without any AP. At the point you'd get to 200 AP, a Karthus would have 500. Guess who does more damage? The incidental AP on your heal will be nice. But you bring Nidalee not for her spears late game. You bring her for early lane domination alongside a Caitlyn because of double traps and insane reach. None of those two have to do with AP. Nidalee's spears will not reach any further if she has 200 AP.

You are looking at entirely the wrong reasons why people bring supports. They are brought for the effects they provide -without any items-.

[Vespian]

You are looking at entirely the wrong reasons why people bring supports. They are brought for the effects they provide -without any items-.

No, I'm not. There you go again. Assuming, assuming. On Lulu, I build everything a support _should have_. Because I know she's powerful even without any AP. Nidalee, not so much.

[Duilliath]

You are, if you can't see why Nidalee is brought as support and think it's because of AP on her spears.

[Vespian]

You are, if you can't see why Nidalee is brought as support and think it's because of AP on her spears.

I think she's brought for her high mobility/survival rate, her early lane presence, and the ability to quickly rejoin a team. 4 minute traps reveal enemy locations. That all. I forgot to mention the AS.

[Xanjori]

You are, if you can't see why Nidalee is brought as support and think it's because of AP on her spears.

While Nidalee has a pretty strong lane phase as a support I think you can get the same result but with a much better transition into late game as Sona. Its worth noting that mostly Sona will max her Q for maximum harrasment in the lane and her ultimate can be huge in team fights (its worth noting that Nidalee doesnt even bring an ultimate to team fights.)

I think Nidalees time as a "support" died out when they nerfed her heal down a lot.

[Duilliath]

Which is partially the reason Nunu is brought as support. Which, again, does not scale with AP.

Nidalee support alongside Caitlyn: Zone out enemy AD. Get an early Bloodthirster or other big item, now force a dragon while their AD has only got a Doran's blade. Grats, you either get a free dragon (gold for the team) or they try to contest it and you get a double kill on Caitlyn.

THAT is why Nidalee support works.

//edit: I don't disagree that Nidalee isn't the strongest of support picks. I much rather see her in top lane. But arguing that your 200 AP spears will snipe away kills from your AD carry (Vespian: paraphrased, not a literal quote, I know...) isn't going to convince anyone.

[Vespian]

While Nidalee has a pretty strong lane phase as a support I think you can get the same result but with a much better transition into late game as Sona. Its worth noting that mostly Sona will max her Q for maximum harrasment in the lane and her ultimate can be huge in team fights (its worth noting that Nidalee doesnt even bring an ultimate to team fights.)

I think Nidalees time as a "support" died out when they nerfed her heal down a lot.

Sona is squishy as fuck and absolutely not the same presence in a lane.

//edit: I don't disagree that Nidalee isn't the strongest of support picks. I much rather see her in top lane. But arguing that your 200 AP spears will snipe away kills from your AD carry (Vespian: paraphrased, not a literal quote, I know...) isn't going to convince anyone.

(it's 220 + base) Aye, I agree. I'm not saying it will. I just stated that I was playing her like that right now. It's not like I wanted to bring your revelations or anything. It's just that I'm happy to play with a friend of mine and looking to compensate her obvious weaknesses.

About dragon kills, you pick them up when you can. Obviously Nidalee or any zoner makes that happen more quickly.

[Xanjori]

Which is partially the reason Nunu is brought as support. Which, again, does not scale with AP.

Nidalee support alongside Caitlyn: Zone out enemy AD. Get an early Bloodthirster or other big item, now force a dragon while their AD has only got a Doran's blade. Grats, you either get a free dragon (gold for the team) or they try to contest it and you get a double kill on Caitlyn.

THAT is why Nidalee support works.

Nunu has two other huge things. His E, its an attack speed slow, as well as an effective peel at max rank and his ultimate, which can really hurt but also provides a huge 50% MS slow zone which people have to go through to get to your carry in a teamfight (provided you positioned properly.) Once again he outclasses Nid imo, his AS buff is bigger and the MS on it is very important. All in all Id say a Nunu will help your AD survive and put out more damage than a Nid will.

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 02:20 PM ----------

Son is squishy as fuck and absolutely not the same presence in a lane.

:|

I can see that there is literally no point trying to talk to you.

[Deleted]

As this is said, Scarra playing support Lux, saying "What makes it work, is the fact she has good base stats on her spells"

Sona is squishy as fuck and absolutely not the same presence in a lane.

Dude, naw.

[Gallahadd]

Vi will receive several bug fixes soon, notably the bug where Q would cost mana and be put on CD if it's interrupted by CC effects.

Sweet, I hope they fix the annoying ass bug(?) with her R where if you cast it and the target dies after you've charged, but before you connect you still lose the mana and R still goes on CD, but you don't get a support credit, because you'd not hit them yet.

[Deleted]

Sweet, I hope they fix the annoying ass bug(?) with her R where if you cast it and the target dies after you've charged, but before you connect you still lose the mana and R still goes on CD, but you don't get a support credit, because you'd not hit them yet.

That's not a bug, it's literally the same with all spells. Replace Vi R with any spell that has a travel time, and it'll be the same.

[Deleted]

While im not claiming building AP on nid support is good i thhink you guys are jumping to unjust conclusions. The statement :"ad carrys will always use gold better" isnt necessarily always true. If the ad recently finished a big item like IE or PD they will not make mu h use of gold in the short term;here it could be better to let the support get a wave or two to complete shur or aegis for the next baron/dragon fight.

Clg eu has been giving lrepo a bunch of gold so his zyra can build AP in recent matches,while the results of this hasmt always been convincing, it certainly shows it may be something to consuder. Simply disregarding anyones opinion necause " its mot what tje pros do" is just silly. Hobestly m not convinced by his reasonings but you guys are disnisiing new ideas way too fast.


Sirry bout all the crappy spellong and formatting,wrote this pn my phone,hope its not unreadable!

[Deleted]

Go home Trolls, you're drunk.

[Xanjori]

There is a huge difference between Zyra and Nidalee. Nidalee has spears and heals that scale from AP, Zyra has 3 damaging abilities, all of which are gaurenteed to hit in a teamfight (unless somehow you are insanely bad) and also deal AoE damage, the ultimate alone is a good reason to get some AP in there.

CLG.eu also run support jungler a lot, like Maokai, who picks up most of the support items, such as Shurelias and Aegis. It depends a lot on your team comp what you build.'

I mean if you were playing Lux support, I could full on getting behind building Mejais as an item, because shes very good at picking up assists and staying alive, plus if you catch someone in a bind being able to follow up with a powerful ultimate can really turn a fight. If your nidalee spears arent hitting or are hitting the wrong target then you've literally wasted money, its totally why so few people even play Nidalee mid anymore, you need a very specialized comp to make her work.

[Vespian]

There is a huge difference between Zyra and Nidalee. Nidalee has spears and heals that scale from AP, Zyra has 3 damaging abilities, all of which are gaurenteed to hit in a teamfight (unless somehow you are insanely bad) and also deal AoE damage, the ultimate alone is a good reason to get some AP in there.

CLG.eu also run support jungler a lot, like Maokai, who picks up most of the support items, such as Shurelias and Aegis. It depends a lot on your team comp what you build.'

I mean if you were playing Lux support, I could full on getting behind building Mejais as an item, because shes very good at picking up assists and staying alive, plus if you catch someone in a bind being able to follow up with a powerful ultimate can really turn a fight. If your nidalee spears arent hitting or are hitting the wrong target then you've literally wasted money, its totally why so few people even play Nidalee mid anymore, you need a very specialized comp to make her work.

For the record, I never included Mejais in my build :P And I don't disagree. I'm just stating that I'm playing it a little different, right now, but I hardly have that sentence out, or I get my throat bitten out. I have no need for this. If you disagree, feel free and please post about it. But also do a little more than attacking me personally every single time and give me a reason.

I can't do anything with:
- LULZNUB
- Welcome to 2009
- ITS TRUE BECAUSE I SAY SO

That's the work of trolls. This forum is better than that.

Like, the post you made just now, the one that I quoted. That's a lot better than your original "YOUZ DOWN KNOOW WHAT SUPPORTS AREZ LULOL" post, isn't it?

[Deleted]

I wdish i was drunk , sadly just really bda at tuping with touch screen

Well thats the thing, i was arguing that the distribution of gold is a lkot more comålicated than ad-ap-top-jungler-support. Its about hitting certain itemn timings b4 teamfughts. After an ap finishes dc for example he hits a power spike but slows down before his next item,the same way support completing aergis should be prooritized before Ad building a dagger after his IE. Supports getting gold in general has to be explored more, the AD cant farm 3lanes at pnce (unless its Ezreal huehue) and giving the support farm over the jungler or top might be a goodd idea in some cases.

[Xanjori]

Like, the post you made just now, the one that I quoted. That's a lot better than your original "YOUZ DOWN KNOOW WHAT SUPPORTS AREZ LULOL" post, isn't it?

What, and comments like "Sona gives no lane presence" are well thought out and rational? Please.

Tbh the new support items in most cases are worth more than AP. I mean supports can now get QSS for a team mate, twin shadows is amazing, the promote item is very very strong in the right place, true ice is great. I just feel that support got a whole new dimension of support added this season with those items and by just building AP all you are doing is shooting your team in the foot.

[Vespian]

What, and comments like "Sona gives no lane presence" are well thought out and rational? Please.

Tbh the new support items in most cases are worth more than AP. I mean supports can now get QSS for a team mate, twin shadows is amazing, the promote item is very very strong in the right place, true ice is great. I just feel that support got a whole new dimension of support added this season with those items and by just building AP all you are doing is shooting your team in the foot.

Ok, you got me. That wasn't based on anything but my personal experience with her. Although that experience is from pre-S3. I just hate how slow she is. How fast she goes oom, even if she only pokes, and as far as I understood/understand the general NA forum, she has lost some viability.

So all I can give you is, I don't like playing her. I'm sorry. Maybe it translates to, I got raped so often from all sides on Sona, that I'm scared to play her ever again. In other words, not my type of champion. I like something that challenges me. Like, with more skill comes more survival. Sona lacks that. She's utterly straightforward and boring.

I like the new support items. I won't say I don't. I love playing Lulu full support and I just played Lux (with that friend of mine) to try her and ended up mainly going with support items and her skillset is still a constant threat. I miss this in Nidalee. I would have discarded her as a viable support, if I wouldn't somewhat believe that simply the presence of a high-power spear makes opponents more reluctant to engage. I'm talking from two days experience with Nidalee and you can't bring yourself to simply answering with some effort. In that case, you could have just ignored it.

I look at a champion and I go:

x Might be possible, Y might be possible, z might be possible. I use guides as a reference window, but not as the bible, so I try to keep using my brain. Why am I doing this. And I have reasons. So I'm glad to hear your reasons for discouraging it.

[Deleted]

The only items I'd actually consider on Nidalee support are Liandri's for more poke and Void Staff to make your spears actually do damage to high MR targets. Other than that it's usually a bad choice to even go Nidalee support. Like Dulliath said, Nidalee support could be useful in certain lane matchups like a Cait+Nidalee lane where you literally make the enemy AD get almost no cs. As Nidalee support, you won't get close enough to utilise the proc from Iceborn Gauntlet, and if you do, I don't even get why someone as squishy as you is on the frontlines. You could also say that Nidalee has "Good base ability values", but do you even get close enough to the enemies to utilise the damage from Cougar form? Usually that's only what a tanky/bruiser Nidalee on top does, which is why I find it questionable if these items/theories even work.

TLDR; Support Nidalee shouldn't get close enough to use iceborn gauntlet/cougar form abilities to it's full effect.

[Vespian]

TLDR; Support Nidalee shouldn't get close enough to use iceborn gauntlet/cougar form abilities to it's full effect.

For the record, I read it all :P

Ok, situation sketch:

Team A is standing at mid tower to defend. I come in from the side. I throw a diagonal spear through the group. It forces a silly carry (I'm not playing pro leagues, so bear with me) to slightly move west (actually East would be better, different pov, since I wouldn't eat turret fire, but for the example, it will suffice). I immediately follow this up with a spear throw on the carry, use R, W out. The target is slowed, gets picked off as a first target and completely molested. It's now 4v5.

Let's say you are chasing a set of opponents. They're equally fast as you are. You switch to R, W twice, R switch back, AAT (javelin) the back of the first or more important target and pick it off from the group.

I mean, it's not just on melee attacks. It's from basic attacks

My thought process is to keep that spear to install fear. As long as people fear it, they will fear you. As long as they fear you, you become a target, which is something that's incredibly useful when you're called Nidalee and have virtually no way to get caught indefinitely.