DE opinions

[CrossKeeper]

So I have run into some issues in dungeons on DE items. I dont have an idea for a fix, I just want some ideas and to see if others are running into the same problems.

Victim- I finally geared up enough and had my dps high enough (>10kdps) on my warlock to justify queing for a random ZA/ZG. Yes I know my dps should be higher but I thought of this as threshhold to hit for myself. So I get into a random group with 4 people from another server that are all in the same guild and have 359+ gear in all slots. I think sweet only clothie and only one that "needs" gear here. Well I was lucky and the first two bosses dropped upgrades for me replacing a 333 item and a 346 item. I need on both and win both. I am excited and share my excitement in the party chat saying I cant believe my luck. Then the shammy who is an enchanter says I am messing up their Maelstrom Crystal run and I get kicked from the group. All this after waiting over an hour. I dont really think this is fair as they complimented me on my dps and good cc, but simply said I am messing up a sharding run. I was really pissed.

Villian(apparently)- I am running regs on my priest healing who is an enchanter. I say from the start that I will be rolling need on boss drops that I can loot and no others can use so that I can DE them. I am with a warrior, rogue, druid, and hunter. So the first boss drops a healing trinket that I need on after the druid says they are feral/balance. Second boss drops some cloth thing and I need again and DE. The tank says I am being super greedy ( I did not roll need on any green that I could) and says that I should be kicked. The others agree and I am promptly kicked from the group for being so greedy.

So here is my point on all this. 353 epics vendor for 15-30g and the crystals sell for 700-1kg. 333 rares vendor for 8-15g and heavenly shards go for 50-75g. I have spent a ton of gold leveling my enchanting and I am ok to share my skill with the group since we are all there together, but I dont see what is wrong with me needing on somthing that I can DE that noone else needs.

Also on my warlock I think that is plain mean to do and if you want a shard run grab a full guild group and dont let some poor sap like me wait an hour just to get kicked because I actually need the gear that drops.

Well what do y'all think?

[Sanctioned]

Victim - That's kind of a dick move on their point and almost seems like they're abusing the system, I'd probably put in a ticket.

Villain - That's a dick move on your part. The system was put in there to help others out. The only thing I wish they would have done was maybe turn off the roll on DE items option for a few months at the beginning of Cata for enchanters to level. But now you've had plenty of time to do that and it really is stupid for you to roll need on blue shards just because you can.

It can be looked at as, on your warlock those guys were abusing the system but you on your priest is also abusing the system.

[apepi]

Eh I never liked the roll to disenchant thing, I never get any leather or ore when ever someone skins or mines why should they get my disenchantments....

[Ynna]

Needing them, just so you can disenchant is kind of a dick move. Everyone put effort in it, so everyone should get an equal chance for the value of the drops, whether this is the gold from vendoring or a Maelstrom Chrystal.

Eh I never liked the roll to disenchant thing, I never get any leather or ore when ever someone skins or mines why should they get my disenchantments....

Because the ore or herb or leather has no value when it's not acquired. A drop is a drop and can be sold for Gold when no enchanter is present. And I think most miners, skinners or herbalist would mind all that much.

[Porcell]

The obvious response is that you shouldn't have been removed in group 1, and you shouldn't have needed on ALL need-able loot in group 2. There is nothing "against the rules" in either situation, but both are rude.

For team one, I know my guild wouldn't care if someone took upgrades, especially if he were a decent player. Crystals are 150g on my server, and average price of crystals across all servers is in the 200-250g range. If people are crying about losing out on their share of a 250g crystal because you took an upgrade, then they have problems.

For team two, it's a dick move to Need Roll on every single piece of loot that you are capable of needing on. Now, if it comes to the end of the run and you haven't won a shard, and everyone else in the group has been using your DE to get themselves shards, then I wouldn't have a problem with you ninja-needing on a final boss drop to ensure that you get yourself a shard. But needing on every single piece of loot that you can is rude and socially wrong.

[phirx]

seems almost like on ur lock ur upset about the same thing u do to others on ur priest

[Gahk]

Eh I never liked the roll to disenchant thing, I never get any leather or ore when ever someone skins or mines why should they get my disenchantments....

You totally missed the point...

[Angyles]

Pot meet kettle. Exactly what you are complaining about as the victim, you are basically doing as the villian.

[CrossKeeper]

I guess what I would like to see is some sort of compensation to enchanters. Like 1 dust for a rare and one shard for an epic if it is sharded and you dont win. This would only be on boss drops. I am not asking for a piece of everything, but after all if my enchanter wasnt there you would be vendoring somthing for 15-30g instead of selling on AH for 700-1kg or saving for your own enchant.

I have seen rogues need on lock boxes since they can pick the lock and noone bitches. Well can I need on my BS since I can make a key?

[synthetikv]

meh if i can need it i do. i've been ninja'd enough time for me to not give a shit.

if you're after a specific drop come with your guild. otherwise you have just as much claim to the item i'm needing on so need away and let rng figure it out...

[Nalnik]

Victim -- Well, you got 2 pieces at least. They were unfair to you, granted.

Villain (obviously) -- You are rolling Need on items that are actually Greed (DE).

Also, what server and side are you on? I think I want to transfer and take advantage of your server's economy. Shards are 15-20g and Crystals 200-250g on mine. (Durrr, I should have clicked your forum sig. In my defense, none of those have ever worked when I clicked before.)

[Angyles]

I have seen rogues need on lock boxes since they can pick the lock and noone bitches. Well can I need on my BS since I can make a key?

I would complain, it should be a fair roll. Now I have seen rogues roll need and offer the item inside to someone in the group.

I do agree with wanting maybe something a little extra of enchanters, I used to hate running on my priest in Wrath because I never received anything out of the group using my DE function. But now, since it is so easy to get the mats, I do not have an issue with it.

[Porcell]

Needing them, just so you can disenchant is kind of a dick move. Everyone put effort in it, so everyone should get an equal chance for the value of the drops, whether this is the gold from vendoring or a Maelstrom Chrystal.


Because the ore or herb or leather has no value when it's not acquired. A drop is a drop and can be sold for Gold when no enchanter is present. And I think most miners, skinners or herbalist would mind all that much.

Two posts in and this comes up. I don't have a problem with miners and skinners keeping their loot. Not at all. I also don't have a problem with other party members greeding on blues to vendor. The problem comes with other group members using my enchanting profession to 1) make a profit by changing a 10g vendor into a 50g or 200g crystal, 2) increasing the supply of enchanting mats on the market (dual effect of increasing cost to level, but also increasing profit of selling enchanting mats).

Now, if I had that CHOICE to do this for the group, then that's totally okay if Blizzard wants to allow me the option of conveniently DEing for people. But automatically forcing me to increase the profit other others and decrease my profit potential... can one not see the problem with that?

[Spl4sh3r]

Eh I never liked the roll to disenchant thing, I never get any leather or ore when ever someone skins or mines why should they get my disenchantments....

First of all this isn't the same thing. For the DE thing, people would still ask for items to be DE'd and then the Enchanter would be forced to need on things that no one else wants to then DE those and roll them out at the end of the run. If they choose to only do it if they get payed then the group would most likely decline (I know I would) and have the items rolled normally which would reduce the amount of mats there are for Enchanters to begin with. The change is that allow more mats to come out for Enchanting and as a result make it easier for Enchanters to level :P

Mining and Skinning is not the same thing since that would assume you could actually get the item they skin/mine to begin with. But since you can't loot a vein or skin without having the profession it shouldn't go to you. Disenchanting is allowed for all because it's to replace the actual item you can win (instead of having it pass through the Enchanter to be Disenchanted before you then receive the mats from him/her)

[Lei]

Wait wait wait. You not only use the excuse that you want to level your enchanting profession with needing on items (I, personally hate that too, and I would initiate a votekick even if you would like to level it only) but you want to GET PROFIT with that, and you think ALL loot belongs to you what is not needed by others. And what if someone greeds it for offspec (as offspec = greed usually), but you push need on it?
Is this a real topic? You really think you will get "helping hands" on this forum with this attitude? Well, at least people can kick you. :S

[CrossKeeper]

It seems some are confused. On my priest I did not need any of the greens that dropped (there were 6 I could have) I only did it on the boss drops that noone else needed and I could need on. As alliance on eredar the economy sucks, greater clestial go for 50g plus and the rest of the prices equally horrible. When this happened I was still trying to level from 510-525 so most everything required about 150g-200g a point to get.

On another note back in WOTLK I was flamed by the group when my enchanting skill was not high enough to DE boss drops and only the greens. Only happened a few times, but noone flames the skinner/minner/herber if their skill is not high enough.

[Gnomepowa]

It's basically the same situation. In both cases the system was abused and whoever held the power used it in their advantage, fair or not.
Locked boxes can be opened by BSs or by a friendly rogue on your guild. I would not allow needing on those. I have mixed feelings about the possibility to de things with a chanter in the group. On one hand I agree that the loot belongs to everyone equally hence the need/greed system. I don't however think that the de-ed mats belong to anyone that didn't work hard to level enchanting and people know what I'm talking about. I remember the Freya chest and alchemists. There are tons of inconsistent things. That being said though, needing on all to de stuff just for your use is bad and the kick is justified. I level my enchanting through the greens/blues that I get questing and that's plenty. I don't need to ninja people's stuff in dungeons.

[CrossKeeper]

Wait wait wait. You not only use the excuse that you want to level your enchanting profession with needing on items (I, personally hate that too, and I would initiate a votekick even if you would like to level it only) but you want to GET PROFIT with that, and you think ALL loot belongs to you what is not needed by others. And what if someone greeds it for offspec (as offspec = greed usually), but you push need on it?
Is this a real topic? You really think you will get "helping hands" on this forum with this attitude? Well, at least people can kick you. :S

Please read my post that I asked any possible offspec before I needed.

[Ynna]

Two posts in and this comes up. I don't have a problem with miners and skinners keeping their loot. Not at all. I also don't have a problem with other party members greeding on blues to vendor. The problem comes with other group members using my enchanting profession to 1) make a profit by changing a 10g vendor into a 50g or 200g crystal, 2) increasing the supply of enchanting mats on the market (dual effect of increasing cost to level, but also increasing profit of selling enchanting mats).

Now, if I had that CHOICE to do this for the group, then that's totally okay if Blizzard wants to allow me the option of conveniently DEing for people. But automatically forcing me to increase the profit other others and decrease my profit potential... can one not see the problem with that?

Another thing to be aware of is that there is no way to get enchant mats except from enchanters, which is rather different from other gathering professions. Enchanters used to make money twice: once by selling the mats and then by making the enchant. The option to disenchant gives most player access to disenchant mats, which is similar to how Cloth is assembled.

[ttudboz]

LOL. Needing and D/E'ing... you can't be serious... That's a dick move