Paladin need his Old judgement

[Matrlx]

Asking my self this Question : Wich Judgement does a Ret need (long Arm of the Law) or ( judgement of justice )
i miss the Old judgement and it wasnt Op it was fine , Long Arm of the Law is Hilarious , some ppl do Call it Long Arm of the LOL
i dont know what you guys think but i would love to see ur opinions

[Eurytos]

judgement of justice was far better than the current seal of justice. the judgement actually slowed the target, not a melee swing with the seal. I for one would love to have the 3 different judgements back. JoL was a great thing, and JoJ was great in pvp. JoW was ok, but its the other two I liked the most.

however, long arm of the law is really a pve buff mainly, imo. I know that Blizz might have intended it to be for pvp, but the amount of slows and snares that exist to slow us and kite us all over the place is out of control. and with constant target switching from one boss/add to another, Long Arm is quite usefull in pve.

to answer your question, if we could trade Long Arm for JoJ(and JoL/W)....I would.

[zcks]

If Long Arm of the Law was a constant 30% like feral swiftness, cleanse removed all snares like shape shifting does & we either had an instant gap closer or snare then it might actually be decent for pvp.

However since LAOTL only has an active time of around 50%, cleanse only removes one snare at a time (and costs more then 10% of our mana), & hand of freedom can be easily dispelled by any mage, hunter, shaman or priest it is indeed crap for pvp.


Sadly blizzard designers have known this for a long time & has even admitted what mechanics/tools they needs to implement for ret to be balanced & work smoothly (a stance/presence/form mechanic & more complete toolkit). The management at blizzard however refuses to let them be implemented however because they want the design team to come up with another way to balance the class & they don't care how many times the design team has to completely overhaul the class or how pissed off the player base becomes before it happens either because their "Vision" of paladins does not include tools & mechanics that they have admitted every melee & every hybrid class needs.

[Seani]

Gaining 2% health now everytime we are hit probably wont happen, a much more realistic change should be improving WOG for prot pallies.

[Deleted]

Gaining 2% health now everytime we are hit probably wont happen, a much more realistic change should be improving WOG for prot pallies.

except that these days thats a 4k heal on your tank, and a 3kish heal for everyone else, rogues never needing healing from aoe damadge -> recouperate was the fix to this but is often jsut healed by your healers instead.

giving dps 2% mana back on the proc even tho it was base mana made a hell of a lot of differance to certain classes, especialy classes with fast attacking abilities and mana pools ( hunters ),

i don't have a log from back then but a palladins healing through the judgement debuf overthe length of a fight could easily come out to 25% of a pure healers healing done.

[MestHoop]

i don't have a log from back then but a palladins healing through the judgement debuf overthe length of a fight could easily come out to 25% of a pure healers healing done.

As prot, in 25 mans I used to beat certain healers on the meters when I judged light (when we didn't have another paladin in the raid). And I don't think they'll buff WoG for prot. SoI does way more healing than WoG ever did for prot (not on demand, true, but it seems blizz doesn't care about this).

[Deleted]

After reading the title I thought for a second you wanted the judgement back that consumed our 30-second lasting seal.

Glad I was wrong.

[Playintrafic]

After reading the title I thought for a second you wanted the judgement back that consumed our 30-second lasting seal.

Glad I was wrong.

I miss those days. It was almost certainly more fun than the current Holy Power Mechanics, at least as far as retribution was considered, and ret wasn't a whole lot fun back then.

[4KhazModan]

Asking my self this Question : Wich Judgement does a Ret need (long Arm of the Law) or ( judgement of justice )
i miss the Old judgement and it wasnt Op it was fine , Long Arm of the Law is Hilarious , some ppl do Call it Long Arm of the LOL
i dont know what you guys think but i would love to see ur opinions

First may I say, YOU STOLE MY AVATAR OMFG!!!!!

Second: We need a snare more than long arm of the lol. It doesn't last long enough, and can be dispelled.

[Deleted]

If Long Arm of the Law was a constant 30% like feral swiftness, cleanse removed all snares like shape shifting does & we either had an instant gap closer or snare then it might actually be decent for pvp.

However since LAOTL only has an active time of around 50%, cleanse only removes one snare at a time (and costs more then 10% of our mana), & hand of freedom can be easily dispelled by any mage, hunter, shaman or priest it is indeed crap for pvp.


Sadly blizzard designers have known this for a long time & has even admitted what mechanics/tools they needs to implement for ret to be balanced & work smoothly (a stance/presence/form mechanic & more complete toolkit). The management at blizzard however refuses to let them be implemented however because they want the design team to come up with another way to balance the class & they don't care how many times the design team has to completely overhaul the class or how pissed off the player base becomes before it happens either because their "Vision" of paladins does not include tools & mechanics that they have admitted every melee & every hybrid class needs.

Except ferals can't remove roots.

[Recondition]

Long arm of the law is great for soloing/leveling, and seems to be great for pve, not so great for pvp. Not being able to dispell magic really gimped ret in pvp =/
Though the burning question is why call it long arm of the LOL when it's one letter away from long arm of the lawl?

[zcks]

Except ferals can't remove roots.

True, but they do have an instant gap closer & a powerful snare.

& while they cannot remove roots they can remove every active snare on them with a single button press & their run speed boost ends up keeping them about 10% faster in the long run because its a constant boost.

[klaps_05]

in arenas its ok as u can focus judge; prob is 1v1 and that people will def los you in arenas, so i must say its a terrible as a gap closer. also cleanse removing all roots is INCREDIBLY stupid, as it is impossible to pressure and keep dispelling yourself. plus u run oom if u go versus a mage/dk just because of cleanse spam

[zealous]

JoL and JoJ would make us a small bit better in pvp, if they were returned.

If JoJ were to be made a bit more powerful (for example if it became a built in effect through ret talents, with a 15-30 sec ICD or so), we might even become decent.

JoL would help with group synergy and survival, which is currently piss poor for Ret.

[Requital]

After reading the title I thought for a second you wanted the judgement back that consumed our 30-second lasting seal.

Glad I was wrong.

Those were the best days of being a Paladin nothing will ever top TBC.

---------- Post added 2011-06-19 at 07:59 PM ----------

JoL and JoJ would make us a small bit better in pvp, if they were returned.

If JoJ were to be made a bit more powerful (for example if it became a built in effect through ret talents, with a 15-30 sec ICD or so), we might even become decent.

JoL would help with group synergy and survival, which is currently piss poor for Ret.

JoJ would be veyr valuable I always loved it and never worried about a snare or gap closer when I had it.

BTW - Welcome back you need to quit walking that think line of weekly bans.

[Deleted]

To answer the OP, given a choice between LaotL and the old Justice, I'd probably go with the old Justice. Being able to deny sprints and movement speed increases helps your entire team and will provide a good amount more synergy. Remind me again, was the old Justice "snare" dispelable?

After reading the title I thought for a second you wanted the judgement back that consumed our 30-second lasting seal.

Glad I was wrong.

^ This.

I wonder if you people saying TBC pallies were good actually remember what TBC was like. Prot gimmick AoE tank only, Holy sat our for Sunwell raids only 1 per raid group, Ret no competitive dmg only 1 per raid brought for buffs. Constantly judging and reapplying seals is pretty bad design.

[Fhi]

Remind me again, was the old Justice "snare" dispelable?

Yes, but only by magic dispels - so no shapeshifting or Freedom, for example.

[t3hj0j0]

YAY Zealous is back!

OT: I would love JoJ with LAotL even though it still wouldn't fix all of our problems (hello "palys want to heal more" GC), it would help a lot in keeping us on target. Though, if we got it back, I would expect a damage nerf to compensate (not a redistribution from burst, just a straight up nerf bat).

[Requital]

To answer the OP, given a choice between LaotL and the old Justice, I'd probably go with the old Justice. Being able to deny sprints and movement speed increases helps your entire team and will provide a good amount more synergy. Remind me again, was the old Justice "snare" dispelable?



^ This.

I wonder if you people saying TBC pallies were good actually remember what TBC was like. Prot gimmick AoE tank only, Holy sat our for Sunwell raids only 1 per raid group, Ret no competitive dmg only 1 per raid brought for buffs. Constantly judging and reapplying seals is pretty bad design.

TBC was great for Ret if you knew how to play the game. Having the judgement eat the Seal wasn't a bad thing either. I recall multiple top end guilds using a Prot Paladin for their first Illidan kills. Ret was very competitive, I'm so sick of people saying it wasn't competitive. Maybe you or your Ret wasn't competitive but I put up competitive numbers on quite a few fights once we got threat reduction we were fine.

[Sathen]

JoJ would have worked a lot better with the current ret than Wrath ret imo because of the extra judgement range. Bringing it back would help, maybe also increasing our extra movement speed to 30%

edit: Zck's pretty much covered my opinion