Blizz on holy 4.2

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how this went from "topping the meters doesn't matter" to "logs don't matter", but here we are.
There are of course some annotations to make when one says he "tops meters", because topping meters as a healer is not at all the same as a DPS. When you top healing meters as a paladin, one out of three things are true. The first one is that the classes who should be topping meters are not for whatever reason. This would usually considered to be a bad thing and I'm perfectly comfortable in the knowledge that the druids in my guild will produce more HPS than me, because otherwise I'd be raiding with bad players. Secondly, the rest of your raids are bad players who take way too much damage. When you're topping meters on cakewalk heroics because you could actually make effective use of DL, that's no reason to cheer at your ability but rather to be ashamed of your guild. Third option, you're doing Sinestra 25man. Which is cheating.

Beyond comparing healing done ranks on WoL, which falls under the same logic seen above, logs don't add a huge amount of info about yourself as a paladin. You'll see more DLs on a bad night and more HLs on a good night. What exactly are you going to find in logs beyond that?

[Asrialol]

No, but they have to balance encounters around a certain amount of healing required, and healers are (supposed to be) relatively balanced in comparison to each other.

The idea of using HR to buff another player with the effect immediately makes it more useful, because it puts the healing where it needs to be, without you having to move. The SoL speed boost could remain as well, where it would be similar to Body and Soul for Priests. It would be a tactical advantage for the Holy paladin, being able to toss out a speed buff like that.

True. I'm not sure if they actually thought of all the factors about the spell in future raids when they designed it. Some encounters might not make us able to actually move to the targets we want the spell to heal, in which case the "cast on a player" change would be absolutely brilliant. I'm not sure whether the speed part should stay, though, or at least make it stay on the Paladin himself. It would be great utility, but I don't think that's something we need. Plus, Priests would be pretty pissed that Paladins gets another version of their Body and Soul.

I agree with a statement I saw earlier, Paladins needs to be able to actually AoE heal, not just support in the AoE healing.

[deathspally]

well i have glanced over a lot of the posts here. Maybe it me and my gear and they way i play but i tend to burn threw mana pretty fast. I on avg. raid reg 10mans with priest and druid healers. I cant think of a fight where i didnt need druids intervate at least once, on top of my mana regains. Could some1 take a look at gear and or give advise? Why cant pallys go back to stacking crit for mana regain and not spirit?

pallys name is Deathspally on ysera//any kinda good feed back is welcome

[Deleted]

I play a holy pally and resto shaman (both heroic raiding) and a disc/holy priest (normal raiding) and I don't find that to be the case at all. On my paladin I can tank heal for much longer than I can on the other 2 without running into mana issues, the beacon is a great tool to spot raid heal while still pumping some HPS into the tank and the CDs+WoGs are nice emergency measures. It's not just about the numbers you see on the tooltip for your spells, there's tons of other mechanics at play. Overall I find that having 1 holy pally is incredibly useful in a 10m. On almost every single fight my ideal heal comp would include a pally in it. A very good example is Heroic Nef, that fight becomes much easier and simpler with pally than without.

Bottom line, pallies are fine. So are the other 3 specs, all of them have their place and can be useful. If you can't find any reason to bring a pally to your raids other than LoH/AM then you're not properly utilizing the power of the paladin.

Well maybe your not playing your shaman well. But then again your also doing 10mans. or i could be a bad paladin but i generally top heal most stuff so i doubt its that.

[Asrialol]

well i have glanced over a lot of the posts here. Maybe it me and my gear and they way i play but i tend to burn threw mana pretty fast. I on avg. raid reg 10mans with priest and druid healers. I cant think of a fight where i didnt need druids intervate at least once, on top of my mana regains. Could some1 take a look at gear and or give advise? Why cant pallys go back to stacking crit for mana regain and not spirit?

pallys name is Deathspally on ysera//any kinda good feed back is welcome

You should post it in the "rate my Holy Paladin" thread. But since it's your first post, I'll check it out.

Hurricane on weapon isn't really ideal, it works, but if you have issues with regen I'd go for Heartsong. Also, you have quite a few items without spirit, and some where you haven't reforged to spirit. That's a small hit on regen. Glyph of Beacon of Light is pretty bad, I'd take Divine Protection or something like that. But that doesn't have an impact on your regen..

There is a lot of factors which can make you lose mana fast. For instance your other healers might not pull their own weight, meaning you have to compensate. Or perhaps you're not using your cooldowns right, you should try to Judge as often as you can, use Divine Plea when there is minimal damage, mana potions and such, etc. You should not be using Flash of Light, I rarely use it on any fight - ever. Only if people are low (2-5-10%) and I know they will die before my Divine Light is done. Which is rare.

Anyway, hard to help when your gear and stuff seems fine, and you still have issues.
Also, you should put a point out of Last Word and Enlightened Judgement and put them in Improved Judgement. At least one point out of Enlightened, as 2/2 isn't needed. 10yd > 5yd

[Deleted]

Well maybe your not playing your shaman well. But then again your also doing 10mans. or i could be a bad paladin but i generally top heal most stuff so i doubt its that.

I'm certain I don't paly it 100% perfectly, but I play it well enough to keep up with the other healers and to do my job. And I can do any job on both of the classes, and some of the jobs (ie: MT healing heroic Nef) are easier for me to do on my pally and other jobs (ie: kite tank healing on heroic Nef) are easier on shaman. I consider that as good balance.

And yes this is on 10m, but I've done some 25s as well and the paladins there did just as well. Slightly different playstyle for all healers involved (shamans chain heal more, pallies LoD more etc.) but the overall balance remains the same. Also the representation of paladins relative to to other healers and the output of paladins on WoL parses relative to other healers all seem to show that the class is doing fine. So I'm curious why you're having so many more issues on your pally than on a shaman, my experience has if anything been the opposite, I find pallies easier to heal on (although that might be just from having more experience on them).

[Deleted]

I wouldn't say there is so much of an issue they hinder output. But we are so clunky compared to other healers its remarkable.

for example, due to the complete lack of hots unlike other classes (aka passive tank healing) paladins cannot stop casting or theres a chance you could be left behind on some form of spike damage.

on any other healer, you can stop healing once the tank is within 20-30k hp of being topped because your hots can do the rest. And if he drops again your hots are a buffer so any spike damage can mostly be eaten with that.

Have you noticed already the retarded gap in mana costs between Divine Light/Greater Healing Wave/Healing Touch. Divine Light is already 1k in most cases costing more, nearly 2k to greater heal iirc. And its being ramped up by another 1k in 4.2

Wouldnt you much prefer not having the upped mana costs and they can just remove the mana return from judging instead.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't say there is so much of an issue they hinder output. But we are so clunky compared to other healers its remarkable.

for example, due to the complete lack of hots unlike other classes (aka passive tank healing) paladins cannot stop casting or theres a chance you could be left behind on some form of spike damage.

on any other healer, you can stop healing once the tank is within 20-30k hp of being topped because your hots can do the rest. And if he drops again your hots are a buffer so any spike damage can mostly be eaten with that.

Well yeah I miss having Earth Shield / Lifebloom / Renew / PW:S when playing those classes. But there's also just as many situations where I'm playing them and enjoying those spells and find myself missing WoG, HR and Beacon. I also like our CDs, DP, Bubble, DF, GoAK, etc. are pretty awesome on almost all fights. And I absolutely love that they added sprints to pallies, especially when there'll be 2 of them in 4.2

I guess it comes down to flavor. If you enjoy shamans more then you'll probably do better at them, and I can't fault you for that I quite like shammies too. But I do like the state of pally healing atm, both in terms of power and flavor it feels unique and there's definitely some situations where I've been like, ok damn it's a good I'm a pally or I'd have been fucked there (I'm looking at you Al'akir).

Have you noticed already the retarded gap in mana costs between Divine Light/Greater Healing Wave/Healing Touch. Divine Light is already 1k in most cases costing more, nearly 2k to greater heal iirc. And its being ramped up by another 1k in 4.2

Wouldnt you much prefer not having the upped mana costs and they can just remove the mana return from judging instead.

I have noticed the mana costs difference, I assume that's to offset the free heals we get from HoPo. In the current balance I still have more mana on my pally than I do on a better geared shaman so I have to grudgingly admit the mana cost increase might have been justified. Emphasis on might, I'll see how it feels in 4.2. I guess nerfing Judgement could have had the same effect, it's just 2 ways to do the same thing. The end effect is us having more mana issues then before either way.