Haste and DoomGuard

[kornoth]

Hello everyone,

I have few questions about the doomguard.
Does he benefit of all our stats and buff?

Why does he not benefit of eradication since it's considered as 20% hast and not cast time reduction like it affect dots.
Same goes for bloodlust.
I tested and the doomguard cast exactly the same number of doombolt while in bloodlust or eradication.

Does he benefit from demon soul: felguard ( the hast and the damage buff)?

[Deleted]

Deleted: Misinformed warlock

[Gobuchul]

The Doomguard does not benefit from haste in any way, nor from any haste-related buff. The only exception is Essence of the Red on Sinestra if he's up before she applies it.

He does benefit from spell power (and mastery, if you're demonology) buffs at the time of summoning, so your best bet is to wait for trinket procs and/or volcanic potion, preferably everything lined up at the same time.

[Geomatician]

Doomguard benefits from haste on your gear, no other haste buffs aside from Essence on the Sinestra encounter.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post11647498

[Deleted]

wouldn't it be the best, to summon doomguard at the very start, when all trinkets and other sp procs are up? (of course not, when you need dmg boost for a specific encounter)

[Geomatician]

wouldn't it be the best, to summon doomguard at the very start, when all trinkets and other sp procs are up? (of course not, when you need dmg boost for a specific encounter)

For pdps it will always be best to pop dg at the start of the fight once all your buffs are active.

[Deleted]

Doomguard benefits from haste on your gear, no other haste buffs aside from Essence on the Sinestra encounter.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post11647498

The Doomguard really doesn't scale with haste on your gear. This is very easy to check for yourself in game by summoning him with no gear and then again with Haste gear, his cast time will stay the same and he won't get any additional casts off.

Here's an expression for a DG's casts from a WoL parse picked from the top DPS charts for example:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...pe%3DTYPE_CAST

Even restricted to just the 17% or so haste from gear most of us have these days, the casts would be brought down to 2.56 seconds, which just isn't supported by logs like this or observation.

As an aside: the DG most definitely does gain Essence of the Red and it most definitely affects his cast times, here's another log of someone summoning one on Sinestra:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...3DTYPE_CAST%29

Incidentally, in this log you will notice that the 100% haste buff has brought the cast time down to 1.5 seconds, half of 3s as expected for an 100% haste buff (if it were affected by gear as well it would be much lower because haste buffs like Essence of the Red are multiplicatively applied.)

[Geomatician]

The Doomguard really doesn't scale with haste on your gear. This is very easy to check for yourself in game by summoning him with no gear and then again with Haste gear, his cast time will stay the same and he won't get any additional casts off.

I've checked this several times and the cast time of doombolt is 3s with no gear and 2.5s for me with my gear on. Checked on alot of cast bars and the result was the same.

Also your parse is inconsistent, the cast time is never the same. Dropping as low as 2.5s between cast time to as high as 3.3s between cast time. Which you claim isn't the case.

It's just showing a large inconsistency in doom bolt casts. It could be not scaling with gear or it could be combat issues.

14 casts on dummy with gear on
13 casts on dummy with no gear on

Casts were completed casts. The 15th cast with gear on didnt complete as pet died and the 14th cast with no gear on didnt complete because pet died. Looks to me like it scales with gear haste rating.

[knazra]

I have yet to test whether or not haste effects such as Eradication/bloodlust in depth, but with gearing yes the doombolts are affected by haste gear.

[Tokens]

I stand corrected :-)

[Deleted]

This simply isn't true Tokens, the Doomguard in the second parse with Essence of the Red manages to cast 39 Doom Bolts, so they cannot have a cooldown as you describe, unless you're suggesting that it also lowers the cooldown as well.

However, after thinking about this, I think that I was wrong because there's some complications to the way Guardian's behave that I was forgetting.

Firstly: My statement that the cast times would be lower than 1.5 seconds for a Doomguard with both Haste from gear and Essence of the Red is false: haste effects do not reduce the GCD for pets or guardians, so regardless of how much haste they have, they never try to cast more frequently than once every 1.5 seconds. This was most egregiously obvious with the Imp at the end of Wrath and is (as far as I'm aware) still the case.

Secondly: The inconsistant cast initiation gap times are the result of lag: pets and guardians do not have a pre-cast queue: their AI always waits for the server to tell them that the previous cast has finished before they start casting the new one. I observed the cast times and that they're distributed around 3 seconds and concluded that the cast was three seconds (the average is 3.04s for the first parse for example), however with the simplistic guardian AI, they must all be higher than the cast time (but by a varying amount). This is also an annoyance with the Imp and is why it's beneficial to prompt him all the time by macroing Firebolts onto our spells (something we can't do for the Doomguard as he's a Guardian).

So TL;DR: The Doomguard does seem to scale from Haste rating on gear (and just like other pets/guardians they scale from effects that occur on them, but not from non-rating effects purely on the master), unfortunately however the amount of Haste we currently have on gear is coincidentally just about enough to counter-act the simplistic and lag-vulnerable AI, thus bringing the average cast interval back to roughly 3 seconds!

[Geomatician]

The Doomguard does seem to scale from Haste rating on gear (and just like other pets/guardians they scale from effects that occur on them, but not from non-rating effects purely on the master), unfortunately however the amount of Haste we currently have on gear is coincidentally just about enough to counter-act the simplistic and lag-vulnerable AI, thus bringing the average cast interval back to roughly 3 seconds!

Yeh I think I better clarify myself since I made my last post on this. Your quote seems to be exactly how it is. It scales with haste rating but on enough sample sets (since my first post I tested multiple more times) it works out to a similar number of casts. So I suspected it was due to lag.

I also began to think about the Imp and it's GCD, forcing it to cast via a macro. This led me to believe that it was the same issue with Doombolt which it cannot be fixed.

So yeh it scales with haste rating but it wont ever really make a difference.

[Sanoku]

Secondly: The inconsistant cast initiation gap times are the result of lag: pets and guardians do not have a pre-cast queue: their AI always waits for the server to tell them that the previous cast has finished before they start casting the new one.

The gap in casts is also due to the fact that if you have 2 banes active it will attempt to cast on both targets aka changing targets, moving to the other target that is too far away etc etc. For example: I have all my dots on Sinestra (bane of doom, corruption, immolate shadowflame all that jazz) then as we're killing the twilight drake that has bane of agony, corruption, and immolate on it... I make sure that bane of agony is NOT present when I summon the DG and Essence is being given out.

The same thing applies to Valiona and Theralion. If I summon a DG I make sure my off target's Bane of Agony falls off. He just randomly stops casting and tries to alternate between the 2 targets. If I only have 1 bane when he's summoned his casts are for the most part consistent unless the target moves out of range then of course he'll move. Point is I see a lot of locks make this mistake and then they wonder why their doomguard did almost no damage.

Oh and did I mention they also don't get the 90% reduced aoe damage taken? Raped by Flame Breath on Sinestra unless actually healed, Ascendant Council phase 3 puddles, shadowblaze fire on Nefarian you name it. Just gotta be careful where you summon him. Just another bonus. I wish Blizzard would make the guardians affected from haste entirely (heroism and haste rating altogether), fix their aoe damage taken, and make it so your guardian chooses your target with Bane of Doom over a target with Bane of Agony. This would solve the target switching.

[Tokens]

I stand corrected, thanks for clearing that up.

I also tried maxing out my hasterating with pot, heart of ignacious and elixir to a total of 4922 haste rating. Doomguard casttime went down to 2.2 sec and I got a total of 17 casts of as Destruction. Time between casts was very inconsistant. ,