Raids Easier then ZA/ZG?

[Oerba Yun Fang]

<snip>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You touched on the point I was trying to make earlier. It's not raiding that makes people good, it's the willingness to actively search for ways to get better. I visit MMO-Champion and EJ because I want to get better at my role. I'm by no means "pro" or "great," but I'm good enough that I can pull my own weight and not slow down the people I raid with (when I do raid, which I haven't in a while -- I really need to start again...), and that's because I was willing to put in the effort. Not everyone has that, and that doesn't mean they should see any less of the game than everyone else.

[Scubasage]

Social engineering. Regardless of what difficulty mode he's playing on, he doesn't want the playerbase to be told that "It's OK not to get better at the game in order to overcome those challenging raids, you just have to wait until the raids get nerfed", because he realizes that's simply going to make those players terrible, entitled, spoiled, and insufferable morons.

Totally stealing this as my signature. Thank you good sir.

The fact that you view players as "insufferable morons" just because they aren't good at playing a game says a lot about you.

Let's not fool ourselves here - someone, who doesn't care about getting better in a game will never get into heroic raids, and therefore you will never have to deal with them, if you never do normal raids. If you're doing heroic raids you are probably only raiding with your guild in which case you have absolute control over with what people you will play together. The only reason to care about normal modes, when you're a heroic raider, is because you don't want a certain kind of players to have or enjoy certain stuff or content.

The issue is that the playerbase becomes worse and worse the more this continues. Yes, you can exclude yourself to only playing with the "good" players, but that shouldn't be the case in an MMO. It should be that everyone works together to achieve something. Regardless of whether or not those players get into heroic raids, that shouldn't be the only thing you care about and the only thing you play the game for. If you care about the well being of the game as a whole, you care about this issue, regardless of what modes you raid or if you raid at all. The game should be enjoyable no matter what you do, but this isn't the case because of how the player base has evolved over the lifespan of the game.

Also, think about it this way. Do you want things to go back to being faceroll easy? I sure don't, faceroll easy is boring. That's what will eventually happen though, things will slowly turn more and more faceroll, even the new content, simply because it's what makes the most sense in the long run if they are going to continue with their mentality of "Let us lower the content for the lowest of the low, rather than making them raise themselves up to it."

So no, you cannot teach some players through failure because they don't understand the reason why they fail. I have taught many players things and it involves very basic training - instantaneous reaction to bad things, knowledge of every class ability (including situational ones in the right situations), keybindings, addons (I love Tidyplates), and good movement principles. It takes time - A LOT of time.

I was freaking AWFUL at WoW for the first few years I played it but I still loved it. Six years later I still love the game and play all three Paladin specs (10k talent respec bill so far - QQ) and I'm relatively good. In my case it wasn't failure that completed my transformation from "bad" to "good"; it was my constant need to seek information and understand every NPC ability, boss mechanic, patch change, and developer decision (which also led me to MMO-Champion). A lot of people don't have that kind of drive. They simply view the game as a fun activity to do in their offtime. They're not OPPOSED to improving but they'd rather just have some casual fun every once in a while.

If you want players to get better, lead a pug through the nerfed raids. Try to offer people pointers in a very friendly and unobtrusive way. Pair your advice with a compliment - their ability to move or their DPS or another positive quality. Teach players to be better in a friendly way and they'll get better. The elitist approach ("You're so bad you don't even use Icy Touch and Plague Strike - only Outbreak! Your disease uptime is horrible! Go jump off a cliff and give your account to somebody less terrible!") will only make them hate you and further the increasingly hateful relationship between "elitists" and "pugs".

You make some very good points, but on the topic of those who don't want to improve...Why are they playing a game based entirely on improving your character if they don't want to improve? If you don't want to improve at a game and just want some casual pick up and play well fun, why not play something more along the lines of an FPS or fighting or racing game? If they don't care about stats and using the best abilities they can, why are they playing an RPG?

Anyways, maybe I have the worst luck in the world, but whenever I try to help someone in a LFD heroic (I don't pug raids other than BH...ever), by going "/w Hey, I notice that you are using Frostbolt all the time, but are specced arcane. You should try using Arcane Blast and Arcane Missiles instead, it will make you do much more damage " and this is the response I get "F*** off/you" or "I'm just a casual trying to have a little fun, go away elitest douche!", things along those lines. I don't flame them, I don't talk in /p when offering advice, and still, over 80% of the time that is the type of response I get. I've noticed that the only people who respond positively to things like that are new players, not the "casuals" or "bads". The new players are happy that someone is willing to help them out, where as those "bads" are upset that somebody is trying to help them out.

Frankly, those are the kinds of people I'd want to weed out of the game. Yes, less subs = less money = less content, but Blizz was able to release quality content at all times during WoW's lifespan, regardless of the number of subs. The quantity of the content hasn't increased very much lately (other than all the reskins and models and stuff, which frankly, is very low on my priority list, graphics don't make or break a game for me).

[CrunkJuice5]

Originally Posted by Torticoli
Why nerf raids that have been regularly beaten by hundreds of groups ? And are therefore perfectly doable ?

they made be "regularly beaten by hundreds of groups" on your server.but that doesnt speak for every server

pugs on my server couldnt even down halfus.im sure with the nerfs there probably still failing on halfus,but i dont care because i never pug.eather way,i didnt see firelands bosses on the list of stuff being nerfed,so i didnt care after i read about the nerfs

[Eon Drache]

The Raptor Boss can't kill you with his Bloodletting. It does 50% of current health. The only way it would kill you maybe is if you had 1 health left. Literally don't need a healer on that fight except for the tank. And if the tank is a Blood DK. Don't need a healer at all.

[Scubasage]

EDIT: lol I'm dumb. Eon is right. carry on.

[CrunkJuice5]

Wrong, it deals 50% of their health every 2 sec, and lasts for more than 2 sec.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=96776

plus they nerfed blood dk healing.you can thank the youtube superstars mionelol and that other person for the nerfs


but i dont play blood on my dk im unholy so i dont care

[Deleted]

Jesse really says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fBjaa0odE

You realise that video was a joke, riight?

[Oerba Yun Fang]

The Raptor Boss can't kill you with his Bloodletting. It does 50% of current health. The only way it would kill you maybe is if you had 1 health left. Literally don't need a healer on that fight except for the tank. And if the tank is a Blood DK. Don't need a healer at all.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way on my healer. I would spend my time healing my ass off, but then I actually stopped to read what it did. Since then, I just let them go until the debuff wears off, and then heal them.