CLCret

[Prentice]

The reason I use clcret is pretty straightforward.

My focal point



Your focal point


Put yourself in a heroic raid and the second option really isn't an option at all.

[jeffersonian000]

I tried clcret for the first time today and found it really irritating. Did not like the holy power bar in the middle of the screen (and not not being able to move it); I can track HoPo fine. When i worked out a setting that would get rid of it in Ret spec, the stupid thing re-appeared and just staid there in Prot spec. It really bugged me.

As to the rotation advice, I found it lacking. Yes, it gave me the best buttom to hit each time. No, it didnot flag the most appropriate filler to use when those buttons were on CD. I started to ignore it when I noticed my dps dropped by 30%, then just uninstalled it since it wasn't being useful.

Sorry to say, but it just didn't fit my playstyle.

SJ

[darkwarrior42]

The reason I use clcret is pretty straightforward.

Put yourself in a heroic raid and the second option really isn't an option at all.

My problem with CLCret isn't that it changes your focal point, it's that it calculates what the best button to hit will be, all other things being equal. Yes, sometimes you can't follow what it says and you have to think for yourself... but ultimately it's still telling you what you should do next, if possible.
-Yes, you still need to actually do it
-No, it doesn't tell you how to react to changing situations.

Still, as far as I'm concerned there are only two possibilities:
1) The rotation is not too difficult to keep track of without this addon. In this case, players who use it are either lazy or bad.
2) The rotation is too difficult to keep track of without this or a similar addon. In this case, the rotation needs to be redesigned.

So I guess my question is.... is ret's rotation fundamentally flawed, or are top-end ret players who use this addon just lazy/bad?

Edit: For what it's worth, on my dps toons I use customized power auras and indicators that indicate when an ability is available or the current status of various powers. The fundamental difference between the two is that none of the addons tell me what I should hit next, they simply indicate what is and is not available, and when things will become available.

[t3hj0j0]

My problem with CLCret isn't that it changes your focal point, it's that it calculates what the best button to hit will be, all other things being equal. Yes, sometimes you can't follow what it says and you have to think for yourself... but ultimately it's still telling you what you should do next, if possible.
-Yes, you still need to actually do it
-No, it doesn't tell you how to react to changing situations.

Still, as far as I'm concerned there are only two possibilities:
1) The rotation is not too difficult to keep track of without this addon. In this case, players who use it are either lazy or bad.
2) The rotation is too difficult to keep track of without this or a similar addon. In this case, the rotation needs to be redesigned.

So I guess my question is.... is ret's rotation fundamentally flawed, or are top-end ret players who use this addon just lazy/bad?

Edit: For what it's worth, on my dps toons I use customized power auras and indicators that indicate when an ability is available or the current status of various powers. The fundamental difference between the two is that none of the addons tell me what I should hit next, they simply indicate what is and is not available, and when things will become available.

So, you prefer to custom work with power auras, to indicate everything that is available, and then decide on what to do. So, you prefer to spend more time making a decision than paying attention to other variables in the raid. You prefer to not play up to your full potential. To maximize your dps, use clcret/clcinfo. Period. It increases your dps and your reaction time.

Our rotation is one of the most bloody simple things in this game. My lvl 30 combat rogue has a harder rotation than my ret. But I'm not lazy (in game at least :P) and I'm not bad (I'd like to think so at least, I top the melee side of the meters, have awesome raid awareness, and in general don't suck). I use clcret because it MAKES ME BETTER. It's simple, small, correct, and quick. Why would I bother with making crazy power auras, finding spots for all of them, making sure they work 100% of the time, and then looking over everyone one of them every second in raids and then deciding what to press. I could, but a little icon in the relative center of my screen is so much better.

And of course you have to sometimes deviate, THAT is what separates the good rets from the bad. The good ones refresh inq before the boss goes into an airphase that they can still exo in. A bad ret presses TV cause the shiny add-on told him to.

Clcret is better than nothing. Clcret is better than deciding than for yourself. You can tell yourself "I have more skillz than the baddies with clcret" all you want, but, in an equal everything situation, they will beat you. Every single time.

[Barghest]

So, you prefer to custom work with power auras, to indicate everything that is available, and then decide on what to do. So, you prefer to spend more time making a decision than paying attention to other variables in the raid.

because glancing over 3 icons takes more time than looking at 1? after 2 minutes of play and knowing the position of them you can recognize instantly what takes priority. Anyone that plays seriously will set up their UI to be superior blizzard's so acting like anyone not using it is spinning their head looking around their monitor is just false. Some people opt to not be a middle man between an addon and the keyboard because it's half the way to botting. and i'm afraid the game is not so difficult that the precious time you save not thinking about what ability to press next is keeping you from standing in fire

[t3hj0j0]

because glancing over 3 icons takes more time than looking at 1? after 2 minutes of play and knowing the position of them you can recognize instantly what takes priority. Anyone that plays seriously will set up their UI to be superior blizzard's so acting like anyone not using it is spinning their head looking around their monitor is just false. Some people opt to not be a middle man between an addon and the keyboard because it's half the way to botting. and i'm afraid the game is not so difficult that the precious time you save not thinking about what ability to press next is keeping you from standing in fire

Yes, glancing over 3 icons takes longer than 1. No, you cant recognize instantly what takes priority, you have to look at the bars, look at your procs, look at the DBM timers, then decide. Of course you don't look around the entire screen, but you have to look at all of your different add ons you use to see your procs/timers/bars. ANY addon is halfway to botting, because it does things that you could do yourself or things the game doesn't do itself. Doesn't mean you should run without them. It's not the time you spend thinking about what you are going to do next, its the fact that you don't even have to look at your bars and decide. You can set it up next to your raid frames to see "oh shit, that d00d needs a LoH" or "tanks dead, ima bubble taunt till he gets rezzed and healed". It saves space, it saves time, it saves ATTENTION.

[Prentice]

because glancing over 3 icons takes more time than looking at 1? after 2 minutes of play and knowing the position of them you can recognize instantly what takes priority. Anyone that plays seriously will set up their UI to be superior blizzard's so acting like anyone not using it is spinning their head looking around their monitor is just false. Some people opt to not be a middle man between an addon and the keyboard because it's half the way to botting. and i'm afraid the game is not so difficult that the precious time you save not thinking about what ability to press next is keeping you from standing in fire

You would be VERY surprised. Half of the e-thugs claiming that clcret is for bads are mid-to-bottom dps that can boast laughable parses. Many of those parses indicate that they died to something completely trivial and retarded. This leads me to believe that they were tunneling their action bar and watching for procs instead of recognizing what is about to kill them.

If you wish to Powa everything, that's your call. I really dislike setting up addons and clcret is very simplistic. The holy power bar is movable/can be disabled. If that is one of your complaints, you really didn't give the addon a fair shake. I use the holy power bar for prot and the complete module for ret. It works very well for me.

[franto]

What i personally don't like about clcret:
- it use a portion of your screen.
- make you feel like you just press what it tells you.
- force you to look at those 2 buttons all the time - cause you don't know in your mind what comes next.
- does not track inquisition duration.

My advice:
- everyone should try it, at least for comparing your "rotation" with the build one.

I currently play with just power auras (tracking inquisition) + hearkitty (tracking holy power by sound).

[marinos]

What i personally don't like about clcret:
- it use a portion of your screen.
- make you feel like you just press what it tells you.
- force you to look at those 2 buttons all the time - cause you don't know in your mind what comes next.
- does not track inquisition duration.

My advice:
- everyone should try it, at least for comparing your "rotation" with the build one.

I currently play with just power auras (tracking inquisition) + hearkitty (tracking holy power by sound).

Takes a little portion of your screen and just shows everything you want to know
You can still decide if something is worth to cast or not
Even if you look at your bars you cant be 100% sure what will come next (AoW and DP procs)
Ofc it tracks Inq duration.You just have to make Aura Button in the configuration.

[franto]

Takes a little portion of your screen and just shows everything you want to know
You can still decide if something is worth to cast or not
Even if you look at your bars you cant be 100% sure what will come next (AoW and DP procs)
Ofc it tracks Inq duration.You just have to make Aura Button in the configuration.

Actually for me it's faster to imagine the rotation and then adjust it in my mind, that to "process" it from the screen.

About the inquisition tracking, it only show you when to press the inquisition button, but does it show the remaining seconds of the buff on you, so you can decide on your own?

[marinos]

Actually for me it's faster to imagine the rotation and then adjust it in my mind, that to "process" it from the screen.

About the inquisition tracking, it only show you when to press the inquisition button, but does it show the remaining seconds of the buff on you, so you can decide on your own?

Ofc it has a timer.Its like a power aura.You just have to make it in the configuration panel.
You can track whatever you want with it,from potion to trinket procs.If you dont use the addon to its full potential you have no idea how good it is.
And btw,imagine the rotation,uhm,ok?

[franto]

Ofc it has a timer.Its like a power aura.You just have to make it in the configuration panel.
And btw,imagine the rotation,uhm,ok?

Speaking about clcret or clcinfo?

[marinos]

Speaking about clcret or clcinfo?

I use clcret but both of those can track it.

[Deleted]

the button what 'tells' you what to press is the button you look the least at if played right.

So what's the point of such an addon if you don't use it for it's "main" purpose ?

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 08:47 PM ----------

Edit: For what it's worth, on my dps toons I use customized power auras and indicators that indicate when an ability is available or the current status of various powers. The fundamental difference between the two is that none of the addons tell me what I should hit next, they simply indicate what is and is not available, and when things will become available.

When you try to tell them this, they will simply answer that you are a "clueless idiot not maximizing his dps". PowerAura is far better for doing so as you can make it nice-looking, contrary to CLCRet/Info, such an addon becomes useless once you have set a proper UI and you know how to react to every proc.

[4KhazModan]

I have actually started using it more as a learning tool to help me get better. I have a much better grasp on the rotation. I found that without it, atm, I pull 500 less dps. I'm sure this will go down as I improve.

[Deleted]

you have to make your owen choice

[Kisko]

I think it's time for a win post.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...now?p=10794800

[Deleted]

I think it's time for a win post.http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...now?p=10794800

Except that you don't take into account other addons and simply compare to base UI. You can have the exact same thing with a well configured PowerAura. Stop trying to find excuses for using it, if you were good enough would have set a PowerAura or two, centered an action with principal abilities, and some icons for timers, an you don't have the no brained "push this button" part. Saying that it tracks everything is a false excuse for using it, you can obtain the same thing with PowerAura and Dominos, you're just too lazy to think of yourself what to push, even if the rotation is so simple and straightforward.

[Requital]

Except that you don't take into account other addons and simply compare to base UI. You can have the exact same thing with a well configured PowerAura. Stop trying to find excuses for using it, if you were good enough would have set a PowerAura or two, centered an action with principal abilities, and some icons for timers, an you don't have the no brained "push this button" part. Saying that it tracks everything is a false excuse for using it, you can obtain the same thing with PowerAura and Dominos, you're just too lazy to think of yourself what to push, even if the rotation is so simple and straightforward.

Actually no you can't straight forward the fact you think you can shows you are misinformed how about quit posting in these threads while you are at it.

[Naididae]

Here's the rotation I use on my custom clc ret with 2t12

inqadp cs inqahp tvsdp tvs3hp inqrdp inqrhp tvshaper tvcs tvdp exoud how exo tvhp j hw cons

tvshaper is tv with blessing of the shaper up, tvcs is when cs time to finish cd < 1.5s or if inq is >= 10 and <= 16, inqahp takes a few conditions into account (like gcd, crusader strike cd compared to inq remaining time), tvs3hp is tv with 3 hp with a few conditionals, and there are some other stuff in the rest.
Now, if you can keep track of that without clcret in the middle of a raid encounter, you must be a robot.