Resto feels too good. Nerfs inc?

[Camjee]

What makes SLT so rubbish is the small radius (10 yards) coupled with the long CD (3m). Buff it up to a 20 yard radius 2m cd ability, and you're good to go.

that totally wouldn't be op in arena. /sarcasm

[Against the Modern World]

Basically druids are like THE best base-healer. By that I mean: druid keeps everyone alive with his HoTs, the other classes top them to full health.

So, what the druids exactly do, if other healers will need to cast something anyway? Yes, the HPS is ticking, but someone else still will have pay attention and heal them. It's like healing stream totem - it adds to meters, but does it's healing save someone when he's going to die?

[Myrrar]

Judging healers based on the number of top parses on WoL is a terrible way to determine the ranking of best to worst on a given fight. Especially baleroc, HPS rankings are absolutely worthless for determining anything at all.

This. For HM 10 Bal a druid can parse high hps, but pallys and priests are still significantly better. As said, not enough that druids *have* to be sat. But if I was leading a raid and wanted a perfect set up I'd drop the druid in a heartbeat. The way the mechanics work on Bal, anyone can be highest hps based on strat and rotation. I can top hps that fight without actually doing anything important. If the priest can grab stacks faster, can help make it so people can take the crystal longer, along with all the other things that happen on that fight, they are more valuable.

When looking at other fights, their CDs make up for our HPS. HPs is the absolute worst way to judge a healer. If I have a pally sit on the tank and just spam their big heal and get 40k hps, and I have to keep everyone alive by complicated mechanics that he can't do because he doesn't have some of our abilities, he is not better for the fight because he can push our raw hps.

Like I said before, druids are meant to top meters. That does not make us the best healer. I'm not saying they are bad healers

In the end, when looking at HMs(well, before they get nurfed) a dmg reducer is much better than a big heal. There are plenty of times people die through tranquility, and they wouldn't have if they had a dmg reducer. With the way mechanics are in FL you don't have to stack pallys and priests because raw througput + their CDs is enough. But, if they don't stay on this line, it will just go back to the way it was in t11, and wrath. And like said, I'd easily give up some raw throughput for a CD. Not SLT, but one of the others.

[cleotaurus]

There is literally absolutely no other way to judge it. That's, again literally, our only metric which we can use to judge which healer is or is not better at healing the fight.

That said, I disagree. I think it's a flawless way to determine which healer is or is not more capable of healing a fight. For Baleroc, a fight where you cannot pad the meters, HPS is a raw stat that determines how good you, or your class, is at healing the fight.

If you are going to make a statement like that, you really need to justify yourself with an argument.

Last tier everyone thought subtlety was an inferior rogue spec because of sites like WoL and stateofdps. But the fact is subtlety could get dps that was on par with better survivability than the other specs. The spec was hard to play and only resulted in dps that was on par, so nobody played it - and the ones who did weren't very good most of the time. People who assumed sub was a joke spec were just ignorantly going off of one statistic and paying no attention to what the numbers really meant.

Logs are just that - logs. The logs are ranked only in terms of hps which is only one of MANY OTHER factors that determine how well a spec does. It might have some use for other fights when the hurdle for healers is throughput. It is absolutely worthless on a gimmick healing fight like baleroc, where the highest hps numbers will be recorded for people that abuse the mechanic the most - and this has absolutely nothing to do with how well that spec can actually do the fight.

[Deleted]

Druids are great yes, But where they might be #1 in healing on a strong aoe damage fight they are also #1 in overhealing done. This is personally what ive noticed in raids ive done with resto druids.

Obvious, cuz when you hot up a target @ 25% and a pala tops him off, your hots will continue to tick = overhealing.
Your point?

[Deleted]

So, what the druids exactly do, if other healers will need to cast something anyway? Yes, the HPS is ticking, but someone else still will have pay attention and heal them. It's like healing stream totem - it adds to meters, but does it's healing save someone when he's going to die?

In a word? Stability.

Druids can massively help counter things like Rhyolith's Phase 2 Fire Aura, and they just blanket heal the raid all the time. Sure you won't bring people from the brink of death -> full very often, but that's what Shaman and Paladins are good for.

Druids have huge throughput because they can blanket heal a lot of people at once all the time.
Druids need huge throughput because they have no raid damage reduction cooldowns like PW:B, AM and SLT. Abilities which, especially in Heroics, are almost mandatory.
Holy Priest's don't really have them either, hence why they also have huge AoE healing throughput. Though they have Guardian Spirit, which is a nice Tank cooldown.

[SilkforCalde]

Last tier everyone thought subtlety was an inferior rogue spec because of sites like WoL and stateofdps. But the fact is subtlety could get dps that was on par with better survivability than the other specs. The spec was hard to play and only resulted in dps that was on par, so nobody played it - and the ones who did weren't very good most of the time. People who assumed sub was a joke spec were just ignorantly going off of one statistic and paying no attention to what the numbers really meant.

Logs are just that - logs. The logs are ranked only in terms of hps which is only one of MANY OTHER factors that determine how well a spec does. It might have some use for other fights when the hurdle for healers is throughput. It is absolutely worthless on a gimmick healing fight like baleroc, where the highest hps numbers will be recorded for people that abuse the mechanic the most - and this has absolutely nothing to do with how well that spec can actually do the fight.

Your example doesn't make sense. Most people didn't play subtlety because it was harder: that is the reason. Similarly, more people play mages and hunters than warlocks. Why? Because they are much, much easier classes with a much lower skill cap. Mage in particular is staggeringly easy, which is why it is such a popular class for both PVE and PVP. But that situation doesn't fit for healing. People play all kinds of healers. WoL isn't suffering from a paucity of talented priests and shamans, like it was for sub rogues. We are getting those numbers, they just aren't as high as druids and paladins.

HPS is only a factor in some fights. Baleroc is absolutely not one of those fights. Baleroc is sort of like Valithria Dreamwalker if everyone was able to go into the portals. It is a healing race and the number you output is a direct analog for how good you are at healing the fight. A gimmick fight like Chimaeron, sure, HPS doesn't tell the whole story. In Baleroc, when you are only healing a couple people at a time and you can't pad the meters with unnecessary AOE healing, the amount of effective healing definitely tells the whole story. It's not worthless: it is the most worthwhile metric. Period.

Here's my view on this discussion: I feel that you aren't that good at healing the fight and you are in the process of blaming the fight for your issues, instead of properly blaming your inability to cope with the mechanics. When the evidence we are shown completely contradicts your ideology, you simply discount and shove away the evidence and pretend that it is meaningless, when it is absolutely meaningful. You have this internal dialog where druids have these weaknesses (which isn't true, druids aren't the ones with the weaknesses: you are) and you experience massive cognitive dissonance when you are shown the truth of the matter, which is that druids absolutely excel at Baleroc and a team of druids could easily heal the fight. That's what I'm getting out of this argument.

[Myrrar]

Here's my view on this discussion: I feel that you aren't that good at healing the fight and you are in the process of blaming the fight for your issues, instead of properly blaming your inability to cope with the mechanics. When the evidence we are shown completely contradicts your ideology, you simply discount and shove away the evidence and pretend that it is meaningless, when it is absolutely meaningful. You have this internal dialog where druids have these weaknesses (which isn't true, druids aren't the ones with the weaknesses: you are) and you experience massive cognitive dissonance when you are shown the truth of the matter, which is that druids absolutely excel at Baleroc and a team of druids could easily heal the fight. That's what I'm getting out of this argument.

Ignorant. I can top the meters on that fight almost every week and can still accept that I'm not the best for it. Again, you base way too much on HPS, which is really, really dumb. That's like saying even though a rogue can top dps on a fight but can't do any of the important mechanics because of limitations on his class he's obviously best for it. When in truth, if you take more than 1 rogue you can't do the fight. Padding meters has nothing to do with if you are good in a fight or not.

I have no idea why it bothers you so much that we aren't the best class for certain fights when top guilds, middle guilds, even Blizzard has said that our raw throughput isn't always best. It's like a dps spec who sucks for 1 fight screaming 'NO! WE'RE PERFECT' for absolutely no reason.

To eleaborate: for example
This week on my baby druid on Bal 10 norm, I sat on the tank and let my other 2 healers spam the dps. I could have threw 3 RJs out, procd NG, and spammed nourish, but with the stacks we wanted them to get I just didn't heal as much as my other two healers. I topped the meters with very low stacks because I just sat nourishing the tank. Decimation blade, I switched to the dps and they had to take less stacks, my HT wasn't fast enough and even with full hots, I would have had to spam RG to oom to keep them up. If I was a pally, we could have kept a normal rotation and all could have gotten stacks easily, I could heal the dps with insane stacks along without going oom or not being able to fully hot when they switch.

I didn't save any lives, I didn't heal decimation blade(the hardest part), I hardly healed dps, I buffer healed the tank so they would get insane stacks. I did this last week on my pally(2 pallys, 1 priest) and it was significantly easier on everyone. Has nothing to do with skill, or gear, or anything. Just how the fight works. My pally did more hps and more effective healing than my druid, and did more for the other healers in general.

Did we kill it? Yes. When I play my pally, or even priest is it easier and less rngy, yes.

[SilkforCalde]

I didn't say druids were the best at healing Baleroc. I said we are the second best, based on the best evidence at hand. You've provided no reasoning or explanation for why you feel priests are better. The example of a rogue simply doesn't fit, because Baleroc is a pure HPS fight, just like Dreamwalker. Rogues could have plenty of reasons for not being able to handle a mechanic, such as dpsing the blood beasts on Saurfang, but still top the meters because they can just stand there and nuke the boss. That's an easily understandable situation and is based on melee vs range disparities. There is no such reasoning for your arguments about Baleroc. The fact that druids are in the top 10 on WoL and priests and shamans are not pretty clearly illustrates that we are better at healing the fight than them.

I don't base everything on HPS, just this fight, because this is absolutely 100% a pure HPS fight. There is no other consideration. For other fights like Rhyolith, it is absolutely obvious that druids are by far the best healers and your raid is gimped if you don't have one.

[Myrrar]

Tbh, druids are better at healing everything than shaman. Priests are better on Bal because of Pain suppression among other things making it so people can get stacks higher. This helps all the healers significantly.

HPS doesn't matter this fight because it's incredibly inflated and just..messed up really. If like in 10, you use 2 people to heal a dps, a lot is going to be overheal. If they then switch for decimation and heal them above 90 in one huge heal, it messes hps up. HPS is actually least important this fight compared to any other fight in t12. Like said, I topped hps on Bal 10 by just sitting on the tank as they got stacks and healing dps during decimation. I did nothing important, I hot and spammed nourish on our MT and spammed RG on the dps when we did our rotation or during decimation. If I had been a disc priest, we could have let a dps sit on a crystal longer, letting 2/3 of our healers(whoever was healing at that point) get much higher stacks. We put 2 healer on Decimation instead of 1 just in case for rng while if I was a priest, we would have had enough stacks so only 1 person could have healed it and 2 get more stacks.

Anyway, like said, hps is actually worst judge on this fight over all other FL fights. It's like saying a aoe dps sitting on adds for Rhy are far more important than the dps working the legs since they will have higher dps.

[Willas]

worst in pvp right now??? im actually feel very solid on my druid even more now in 4.2 and its quite enjoyable fuck that lol

i think we are nicely balanced....

Resto druids are easily the worst healers in arenas at this moment. No contest.