Also, Baker, the Ebon Blade rejoined the Alliance and Horde after Northrend. Thassarian even flat-out says this. Koltira disobeyed an order from his superior. Sylvanas is fully within her rights to punish him for doing so. I take it you don't have any relatives in the military, so here's a news flash: Court Martials are far more strict than civilian courts.
As for what her order was? To take Andorhol. I'm sorry you can't actually blame Sylvanas for fighting back the Alliance that wants to wipe her people out and annex her territory.
Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!
i'd expect from whats happening, that garrosh will discover that sylvanas is still mass producing "the plague" which he has demanded to be stopped.
Sylvanas still refuses to stop, breaking out with mass war and garrosh attacking and effectively removing sylvanas and "the forsaken" from the horde.
Now this is the twist, with "the forsaken" out of the horde, and still hated by the alliance - what happens?
a - The forsaken becomes a whole expansion where sylvanas is main boss with possible tie-in with Bolvar for numbers?
b - factions are torn, trolls and blood elfs join forsaken after being abused by garrosh and alliance sided factions split with a change of alliances being made.
c - sylvanas is removed from "the forsaken" and takes some with her, creating a "new" forsaken army with possible Bolvar being corrupted, and in control of the nerubians + scourge army (possible tie-in with AQ20/40).
just my 2 cents.
Really?
Morality is subjective to a culture. Good and Evil in ALL ancient cultures and ALL ancient societies have long been shown to have nothing to do with the culture. Instead, they are concepts that are universally attributable to the concepts of pain, suffering, misery, happiness, sustainability, harm and no benefit.B) Good and evil are totally subjective to the culture in which people live. You can't solely tell people what Good and what Evil is.
By causing pain, suffering, misery, you are committing an act of evil.
There is no social equivalent here. This is all about the living environment of not just you but enemies and non-enemies.
No, it's citing facts, and not lying through my teeth about murder in order to protect my fanboi adoration of a fictional character who is committing overt acts of evil just to save my own moral sensibilities.C) Winning an argument isn't closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and blindly yelling that you're right and everyone else is wrong.
1. Everyone does EVERYTHING for Power, the pursuit of power is what drives humanity, both in fiction and in reality
2. Sylvanas agreed to the treaties, until they were broken by Twi-Hammer/Alliance
3. Sylvanas agreed to the agreements, until they were broken by Twi-Hammer/Alliance
4. Sylvanas tells people what they want to hear, remember there were no US troops in Cambodia
5. The Val'kyr chose to join Sylvanas, they are not forced
6. Sylvanas is Forsaken, and the Forsaken are her people.
A) There was peace between WC3 and WoW, that's 4 years of peace
B) The Orcs would love to return to Draenor, too bad the Legion blew it up. The Humans are not native to Kalimdor, so they are invading on Tauren lands
C) It's weird, factions help their allies
D) lolwut?
All of your counter arguments are "i'm right cuz I say so"
Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988
If they were not, you wouldn't see so much debate about things like "Pro-choice VS Pro-Life," Kavorkian, and Gay Rights. People who consider their views and perspectives to be the one and only good truth, are ignorant imbeciles. I know what I believe to be true and have no doubts in it, but going around, telling anyone who disagrees with me off and calling them evil just makes me an ass. :-)
Everyone needs to tone it down a bit, debating lore is fine but name calling is not.
Wait, the OP considers Deathwing and all of that "new lore?" Am I reading too deeply into his post and making assumptions or does he serioulsy not realize the dragon aspects have been in this game's history since looooooooonnnnnggggg before Arthas? o_o
"There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man."
— Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicle)
Yes, really, because it's what's happening.
What is evil to one group of culture may be seen as good to another. It's a simple fact of life. Causing pain, suffering, and misery, for the sake of doing exactly that, most people will accept as evil.Morality is subjective to a culture. Good and Evil in ancient cultures have long been shown to be directly attributable to the concepts of pain, suffering, misery, happiness, sustainability, harm and no benefit.
By causing pain, suffering, misery, you are committing an act of evil.
There is no social equivalent here. This is all about the living environment of not just you but enemies and non-enemies.
But Sylvanus is not doing that, and to believe that she has no justifying cause on her side is to be absolutely ignorance of the FACTS that are present in quest text.
You're twisting the facts to show your own perspective. You're saying 'HEY THIS HAPPENED IN HILLSBRAD SYLVANUS DID THIS' and completely ignoring that the people who did that... did it of their own volition, without Sylvanus' command, and Sylvanus would certainly tell them NOT to do it if she had known.No, it's citing facts, and not lying through my teeth about murder in order to protect my fanboi adoration of a fictional character who is committing overt acts of evil just to save my own moral sensibilities.
In other words, you're presenting small facts, and then making enough twists to fit your argument that it could still, potentially, be believable. Hell, I bet you even believe it yourself, and you've just been misinterpreting everything you seen.
Because you're not stating facts. You're presenting your own version of the facts as if they are fact, despite the fact that numerous RELIABLE resources are in complete disagreement with your presentation of events and actions.
You're a verifiable, confirmed, fanboi Alliance player. That's what you are. You're so anti-Horde and pro-Alliance that no logical argument will ever allow you to believe that the Forsaken could actually be good.
I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.
If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.