[Ret] Trinket ratings estimation [Dragon Soul 4.3+]

[Kinmaul]

1. None of trinkets in the list are ranked with expertise/hit weights. They are all reforged to 70%mastery / 30% crit.

2. Some people can use expertise/hit, some can use it partially, for some it's completely wasted. Since I would like to keep this list relatively short, I'm assuming that you can modify baseline string for your gear and your case and copy-paste it to Windows calculator. It's not hard.

For example, H:HoR with completely wasted expertise will be:
145*1.77*1.075 + 2178*0.18*2.69*1.1975 = 1539 dps

Yeah I was late and I mis-read the forumula you were using, so my apologies there. I still have a question about the coefficient you are using. Based on Chippy's post you are trying to simulate a trinkets effectiveness based on the use/proc lining up with your cd's. For on use trinkets this easily accomplished, but you use the same coefficient for proc trinkets as well. HoR for example has a 90 second icd which means that you can get most of the proc to happen under your initial cd's, but this scenario won't happen again until the 6 minute mark of the fight, after that it won't happen until the 12 minute mark.

Same thing could be said for any proc trinket. If the icd means that its not going to proc around 2,4,6, etc... minute mark of a fight then it really shouldn't be calculated as though its going to line up with your cd's. What I got out of Chippy's post is that on-use trinkets were being undervalued because their effect was giving less of a static str bonus compared to similar ilvl trinkets. Thus the coefficient should be use to more accurately model those trinkets since the str bonus will always line up with your cd's, making it more valuable. You are applying it to all trinkets, even those that don't have an on use effect, and who's icd's mean that its never/rarely going to line up with cd's.

[Kisko]

For on use trinkets this easily accomplished, but you use the same coefficient for proc trinkets as well.

I do not. HoR as a 50% line-up trinket have 1.1975 coeff, 100% line-up trinkets as AoK or IoY have 1.395.

You are applying it to all trinkets, even those that don't have an on use effect, and who's icd's mean that its never/rarely going to line up with cd's.

I do not.
100% get 1.395
50% get 1.1975
statics have 1.075
Read the freaking post.

[Kinmaul]

Essence of the Eternal Flame ------------------ 1757 dps = 383*1.77*1.075 + 1277*0.25*2.69*1.1975
Essence with a 1min cd will be up for every wings/zealotry, and even a second GoAK at the 5 minute mark. However you are only using the 50% coefficient, why? If you use the 100% coefficient of 1.395 the dps of the trinket goes up to 383*1.77*1.075 + 1277*0.25*2.69*1.395 = 1927 dps.

Also the 50% uptime on HoR only applies if the fight lasts at least some multiple of 6 minutes 30 seconds (6 minutes for the procs to line up and 30 seconds for you to take advantage of them). Outside of those fight lengths the trinket will lose effectiveness. HoR is a great trinket and was easily BiS in t11, but with its massive amount of expertise and odd 90 second icd it loses its luster in t12.

[Kisko]

Essence with a 1min cd will be up for every wings/zealotry, and even a second GoAK at the 5 minute mark. However you are only using the 50% coefficient, why?

Because wings/zealotry will NOT be up every 1min. So on-use portion of trinket will be boosted by CDs only half the time.

Also the 50% uptime on HoR only applies if the fight lasts at least some multiple of 6 minutes 30 seconds (6 minutes for the procs to line up and 30 seconds for you to take advantage of them). Outside of those fight lengths the trinket will lose effectiveness.

My experience speaks otherwise.
On short fights, like BH boss, HoR lined up for at least 50% - full synergy for first proc and partial or no synergy for second proc.
On long fights, like Rag (10 min), out of 6 HoR procs I line up with AW 3 of them, again 50%.

HoR is a great trinket and was easily BiS in t11, but with its massive amount of expertise and odd 90 second icd it loses its luster in t12.

Yes, that's why there is notes below the list and everyone should read them and decide which route they are going with tier pieces (depending on which bosses are available) and what trinkets they can or can not include to their set.

[Requital]

Dwyers Caber ICD correction is 50 seconds not 100 got some testing done on it finally.

[Deal]

The only thing I use my caber for is throwing trees at people in sw, real mind blowing thing for a noob lol

[Requital]

The only thing I use my caber for is throwing trees at people in sw, real mind blowing thing for a noob lol

It's better than the lts with the 50 second ICD. The Crit rating can proc from just about anything as well censure, seals and even seals of command it's got a solid uptime.

[Samoflange]

Looks like with the 50s ICD the caber clocks in at 1697.2 DPS, which places it in between AoK (Mastery) and HoR.

[Almond Royale]

would using Caber and AoK be not ideal? since now, there will be a possibility of you having caber proc and you either having to cancel the caber proc to get the mastery bonus from AoK or hope to get the proc right of the bat to help stack AoK and hope that you get the stack in before the next proc>

[Kisko]

Dwyer's Caber changed for 50s ICD. It's a solid trinket now.

[Nyghtfall]

It's better than the lts with the 50 second ICD. The Crit rating can proc from just about anything as well censure, seals and even seals of command it's got a solid uptime.

Had a hard time getting the Caber to proc on the training dummy earlier, but I'll take your word for it. Proc is about 6% crit and coupled with 5 stacks of VoA giving 2%, it basically doubles my regular crit chance.

Working better now..

[DemonSlayer]

i guess im chucking out 30k for apparatus >.< sweet dps boost

[Deleted]

apparatus is very fine in bgs and 3v3.
In PvE, ofc it a BIS

[Almond Royale]

Since Chardev finally got to update their DB, I immediately went to do some simulations w/ simcraft. Since i
ll be getting dwyer's caber tomorrow. i decided to see my dps with it. Shockingly enough after 5 test with my current gear set up w/ LtS and gear set up with dwyer's caber, it seems that with dwyer's there is a dps loss of roughly 150ish. anyway here's my set up for both:

my current set up w/ LtS:
chardev[dot]org/?profile=161509 avg dps: 20380~20400

Dwyer's caber set up:
chardev[dot]org/?profile=161525 avg dps: 20230~20270ish (after a couple more sims, didnt seem to reach 20300 at all)

now im not sure if its just i did the reforging wrong or maybe it has somethin to do with chardev/simcraft's DB regarding dwyer's caber as it just became available recently

also id post sim craft results but i don't know how to export it and im getting sleepy ~.~ also sorry to by pass the im not allowed to post links thing.

[Kisko]

Shockingly enough after 5 test with my current gear set up w/ LtS and gear set up with dwyer's caber, it seems that with dwyer's there is a dps loss of roughly 150ish. anyway here's my set up for both.

SimCraft have a history of being wrong when simulating trinkets, so don't worry about it that much. If Requital data about ICD on it is correct (why it wouldn't?), Caber can't be worse than LtS.

Btw you posted same link twice. I hope both sets are reforged to caps, right?

[Requital]

Since Chardev finally got to update their DB, I immediately went to do some simulations w/ simcraft. Since i
ll be getting dwyer's caber tomorrow. i decided to see my dps with it. Shockingly enough after 5 test with my current gear set up w/ LtS and gear set up with dwyer's caber, it seems that with dwyer's there is a dps loss of roughly 150ish. anyway here's my set up for both:

my current set up w/ LtS:
chardev[dot]org/?profile=161525 avg dps: 20380~20400

Dwyer's caber set up:
chardev[dot]org/?profile=161525 avg dps: 20230~20270ish (after a couple more sims, didnt seem to reach 20300 at all)

now im not sure if its just i did the reforging wrong or maybe it has somethin to do with chardev/simcraft's DB regarding dwyer's caber as it just became available recently

also id post sim craft results but i don't know how to export it and im getting sleepy ~.~ also sorry to by pass the im not allowed to post links thing.

What settings are you using for simcraft? What fight style, what length and how many iterations?

[Almond Royale]

well im just using the default for everything other than fight style which is helterskelter and for iterations, 1000 and for lenght, 450, which are both default.

[Requital]

well im just using the default for everything other than fight style which is helterskelter and for iterations, 1000 and for lenght, 450, which are both default.

Problem is with the Iterations, To get a proper simulation you need to override iterations to 100000.

[Almond Royale]

ah ok, i'll try it this time!
so basically, just set iterations to 10000 right or will i have to input something in the override tab? if so what is it? because honestly im not that familiar with the gritty technical aspects of simcraft...

anyway i'll post results later as i have to get to class.

---------- Post added 2011-07-22 at 02:35 PM ----------

I think i found the problem. Checing my buffs inder Intervals int he result page Dwyer's has a 10006 sec interval not 50 as we had recently found out

edit: definitely getting a dps loss with caber. with my current gear. I reckon i need to get more items with hit... because im just reforging way too much to get hit capped

[scyther250]

I reckon i need to get more items with hit... because im just reforging way too much to get hit capped

The source of the hit really shouldn't impact your DPS, natural or reforged.