I fell in love with my bear :) and what do u guys think bout raiding with pvp gear!

[Rambear]

Using PvP gear has been viable for druids since S4.

Yes, that was because Resi still dropped your chance to be critted, which was needed in TBC times.

In wrath it was usefull cause Wrath=stamina stacking. You know what PvP gear has a shitload of? Thats rights, stamina.

Beyond that: It has higher agi, higher stamina, higher armour. Armour and agility are important enough for bears that the higher quantity of those makes up for losing some crit/haste/expertise, even today.

No druid or any other tank really cared about expertise or hit to begin with. I have a threat set for heroics, but in raids I am happy running around with 0 hit/0 expertise and you'd still get aggro from vengeance.

I will not use all caps, but just to make a point:

People need to understand Feral tanking before they claim PvP gear is bad in PvE, Get it into your thick skull!

[PhXn]

Using PvP gear has been viable for druids since S4.

Yes, that was because Resi still dropped your chance to be critted, which was needed in TBC times.

In wrath it was usefull cause Wrath=stamina stacking. You know what PvP gear has a shitload of? Thats rights, stamina.

Beyond that: It has higher agi, higher stamina, higher armour. Armour and agility are important enough for bears that the higher quantity of those makes up for losing some crit/haste/expertise, even today.

No druid or any other tank really cared about expertise or hit to begin with. I have a threat set for heroics, but in raids I am happy running around with 0 hit/0 expertise and you'd still get aggro from vengeance.

I will not use all caps, but just to make a point:

People need to understand Feral tanking before they claim PvP gear is bad in PvE, Get it into your thick skull!

I so lol'ed about the last sentence

[Deleted]

Id say that PvP items are really bad for all the tanking classes except feral droods.. but in general.. also for feral drood PvP items arent that good.. just depends what PvE item is the PvP one replacing.. what secondary stats there are..
Why are PvP items so bad for tanks? .. cuz Tanks unlike most other classes.. get a lot out of their secondary stats.. Mastery.. dodge.. parry.. all of those are secondary stats.. that are one of the most important ones for tanking.. if you take a PvP item.. youll always get 1 resil stat.. which you cant even reforge.. so you lose one useful stat..
The arguments against.. would be that PvP has higher ilvl.. so the armor for items are higher.. more stamina, str/agi .. but.. stamina isn't that useful .. stamina only gives you hp .. you only need it to not die from big hits.. if you have decent hp.. you don't need it anymore.. str/agi = not as useful as a straight forward secondary stat mastery/avoidance .. Your task is to take dmg.. and so you have to focus all on defense.. not attack power.. and other stuff.. str doesnt give that much parry .. and agi for feral is good.. but still.. secondary stats are very good in cases when both of the secondary stats are good.. not just one or none for a PvP item..
Mostly you need to look at what your replacing.. if your replacing a 346ilvl item with the new s10 honor items.. which have secondary.. mastery/dodge... etc useful ones.. than do it.. but if your changing a 359ilvl item with both useful secondaries with a s10 honor item.. with only 1 or even none useful secondary stats.. than i wouldn't ..
And in general.. if the question is about.. full PvP or full PvE (but slightly shittier..) PvE will win 100% .. if your trying to tank in full PvP .. thats bad.. I would kick you..

[Rambear]

Diviner, I am really sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Agi less useful then parry/dodge/mastery? Not for druids it isn't. There never is any dodge on our gear. Sure, crit, expertise and mastery contrubute to our savage defense uptime and bubble-size, which we would lose.

However, agility gives dodge, AP (for Savage Defense) and crit (for SD uptime). Armour is our best stat due to the bear-modifier and the best way to mitigate physical damage. Stamina provides HP, it is the only way to live through magic damage. Furthermore, it adds to our max vengeance, which also possitively affects our Savage Defense.

Esepcially the extra armour and agility outweight the loss of 1 secondary stat to resillience. Even your assertion that it is abut defense rather than AP does not make sense, seeing how Ap for bears IS a defensive stat.

As for full-PvP gear-> If I could run full 371 PvP gear versus full i359 Pve gear I'd wear the PvP gear everytime. Sure, a PvP item with haste+resi bites, and if I could get my hands on an item slightly lower ilevel with mastery+expertise I would do it.

However, there is a reason why the general consensus is that a tanking item of ilevel 378 with hit+expertise > ilevel 372 with mastery+crit. Armour and agility for a bear is where it is at, and that comes to items through ilevel. Except for trinkets, it pains me to say, higher ilevel does usually make an item better (damn the gearscore nabs from being right :S)

[Rapti]

Think this guy is trolling... really.
So many people telling him the opposite yet he still remains with his own shit.
Stop wasting your time people, if he doesnt get it, he wont.

[Droodeffekt]

did u read the threat?
think u didnt !
ow and fyi i got all the tier items u can get with jp, but alot of it is shit!
i dont mind alot of feedback , but ur just black and white ing here

Well actually this is probably the best response to your thread at the moment. Pvp items are terrible. The same and agi increase is not worth the loss of the other stats and they too give you a mitigation of damage. Secondly, due to Jp being so easy to get , a full t11 set and za/zg off pieces will be enough for starting firelands trash + bosses, from there you raid that content. There is no real need to "need" any potential upgrade you think pvp may give. Unless you just like your ilvl too look good or you still like using gs or something lol.

---------- Post added 2011-07-09 at 02:22 PM ----------

Id say that PvP items are really bad for all the tanking classes except feral droods.. but in general.. also for feral drood PvP items arent that good.. just depends what PvE item is the PvP one replacing.. what secondary stats there are..
Why are PvP items so bad for tanks? .. cuz Tanks unlike most other classes.. get a lot out of their secondary stats.. Mastery.. dodge.. parry.. all of those are secondary stats.. that are one of the most important ones for tanking.. if you take a PvP item.. youll always get 1 resil stat.. which you cant even reforge.. so you lose one useful stat..
The arguments against.. would be that PvP has higher ilvl.. so the armor for items are higher.. more stamina, str/agi .. but.. stamina isn't that useful .. stamina only gives you hp .. you only need it to not die from big hits.. if you have decent hp.. you don't need it anymore.. str/agi = not as useful as a straight forward secondary stat mastery/avoidance .. Your task is to take dmg.. and so you have to focus all on defense.. not attack power.. and other stuff.. str doesnt give that much parry .. and agi for feral is good.. but still.. secondary stats are very good in cases when both of the secondary stats are good.. not just one or none for a PvP item..
Mostly you need to look at what your replacing.. if your replacing a 346ilvl item with the new s10 honor items.. which have secondary.. mastery/dodge... etc useful ones.. than do it.. but if your changing a 359ilvl item with both useful secondaries with a s10 honor item.. with only 1 or even none useful secondary stats.. than i wouldn't ..
And in general.. if the question is about.. full PvP or full PvE (but slightly shittier..) PvE will win 100% .. if your trying to tank in full PvP .. thats bad.. I would kick you..

Please do not post things like this when you are not completely correct in what you are saying. As a bear stamina is important because yes you need it to stay alive but a lot of roles bear tanks will do is the "having high hp to be a large hp tank" if they wanted pure mitigation in come the plate wearers! Secondly Yes attack power is important as a tank. Your job is also to hold threat, so if you have no attack power as a feral druid, people will die as taunt cannot just be spammed. This is why agility is such a powerful stat as the dodge but also from the fact we get attack power for our threat. Why are you going on about str as a bear tank as we cannot parry and with secondary stats they are very important as important as things like dodge. Mastery and crit allow us to take less damage so they are very important as well.

[Rambear]

Droodeffekt, you are wrong.

PvP items aren;t shit. The extra stamina, agility and armour make it well worth considering. Even at 6 ilevels higher, and especially when the difference becomes bigger. In fact, you may scoff at GS, but for ferals higher ilevel=better gear. Secondary stats come after armour and agility, even mastery does not come close.

Your argument about threat makes no sense. Vengeance gives us threat, as does agility.

Sure, pure threat-wise expertise and hit are the best stats. However, no tank tanking current content needs threat stats, due to the abundance of stamina (for vengeance) and agility.


I am not saying PvP gear > PvE gear always, I like having some threat stats, and a healthy dose of mastery never hurt anybody. But that does not mean that ALL firelands content cannot be tanked in full PvP-gear, probably better than in full ilevel 359 gear.

[Xexphone]

Any PvP 384 gear is soooo much better for bears raiding than any 359s. The bonus agi, stam and armor is huge. 378 PvE gear is obviously better, but 384 gear is a great stopgap measure.For anyone who doesn't agree with me, go compare a 384 with a 359 and tell me how 80 agi +130 stam +250 armor is not better than 140 mastery

.Just listen to this guy or u guys can compare tsanga helm(359) with 384PvP helm with yourself.

[axxey]

Unlike other tank classes 80% of bears scaling is from pure item level. Armor, stam and agility all scale purely off item level and nothing else. If I hadn't raided all heroic 372 gear pre 4.2 I'd go with 384 pvp gear over most 359 shit(a lot of which is also shit itemisation).

It's not the "best" with it's lack of mastery and not something you want to strive for but it's in no way bad.

[Tareum]

Why on earth ... Why ?!

You might not want to put in the effort to grind PVE GEAR, or maybe you got suckered by the imba numbers on ilvl384 PVP but trust me...
Your healers want you to go PVE !! Get yourself ilvl378 PVE gear, they'll love you for your useful secondary stats. Not to mention it beats ilvl384 PVP.

Granted, you can tank pretty much anything this game has to offer in ilvl384 PVP. But idc numbers are more impressive than ilvl 359, personally I'd never have you in my raid in PVP gear.

[Skelly]

You might not want to put in the effort to grind PVE GEAR, or maybe you got suckered by the imba numbers on ilvl384 PVP but trust me...
Your healers want you to go PVE !! Get yourself ilvl378 PVE gear, they'll love you for your useful secondary stats. Not to mention it beats ilvl384 PVP.

Granted, you can tank pretty much anything this game has to offer in ilvl384 PVP. But idc numbers are more impressive than ilvl 359, personally I'd never have you in my raid in PVP gear.

I don't think anyone would ever tell you to go with 384 PvP gear instead of ilvl 378 PvE gear... That's not what this thread is about.

[Darxis]

did u read the threat?
think u didnt !
ow and fyi i got all the tier items u can get with jp, but alot of it is shit!
i dont mind alot of feedback , but ur just black and white ing here

Did he read the thread?
Yeah, he did, probably to the part where you said you wanted to raid in PvP gear.
You shouldn't.
/thread.