Survival Hunter Guide (Updated for 5.4)

[Skygoneblue]

Regarding enchants, wouldn't the agi enchants for gloves and cloak be > the crit and masteries?

Plug your character into www.femaledwarf.com and find out for yourself.

For me, going 20 Agility to 65 Mastery on gloves changed my DPS: +8.43
Changing 65 Crit to 22 Agility changed my DPS: -2.35

So, in practice, you won't notice a difference. If you're neurotic about simulators and swear by them as gospel, then it looks like the Cataclysm enchants are ever-so-slightly better, at least for my gearset.

[Jigsawe]

Plug your character into www.femaledwarf.com and find out for yourself.

For me, going 20 Agility to 65 Mastery on gloves changed my DPS: +8.43
Changing 65 Crit to 22 Agility changed my DPS: -2.35

So, in practice, you won't notice a difference. If you're neurotic about simulators and swear by them as gospel, then it looks like the Cataclysm enchants are ever-so-slightly better, at least for my gearset.

A good rule of thumb if you aren't familiar with FD is if you have mainly DS normal+ gear, the Crit to cloak and Mastery to gloves will be better than the corresponding Agi enchants as Agi diminishes in value relative to those two. If you have gear from the new heroics or normal FL, then the Agi enchants will be better. Either way it's a small upgrade and if you aren't particularly concerned with progression, probably go with whatever is cheaper.

[kidsafe]

The weight of agility is still multiples of crit and mastery. With regard to available gear, 20 agi to gloves will almost always outweigh mastery for SV...even under dynamic crit gains. That's just in FD mind you...there's intangibles like range DPS downtime while your pet is still able to attack (in a Fiery Grip or Ice Tomb or just LoS). You are right about 65 crit being better than 22 agi though.

[Dracodraco]

The weight of agility is still multiples of crit and mastery. With regard to available gear, 20 agi to gloves will almost always outweigh mastery for SV...even under dynamic crit gains. That's just in FD mind you...there's intangibles like range DPS downtime while your pet is still able to attack (in a Fiery Grip or Ice Tomb or just LoS). You are right about 65 crit being better than 22 agi though.

Actually, agility is roughly 2.5* as much as mastery, 2.3* as much as crit and 3* as much as haste. which means that 65 mastery will be stronger but 50 mastery won't (due to mail specialisation+kings).

[kidsafe]

Actually, agility is roughly 2.5* as much as mastery, 2.3* as much as crit and 3* as much as haste. which means that 65 mastery will be stronger but 50 mastery won't (due to mail specialisation+kings).

This is what I see on a few example builds, though it does swing down to 2.5 on a few others. The second one is mine specifically when I add +65 Mastery to gloves.





Basically 20 agi can equate to ~45-85 Mastery depending on FD's quirks. They are so close, your DPS gain from the enchant will end up being measured by intangibles like ranged downtime from LoS/distance/stuns/etc.

[Dracodraco]

This is what I see on a few example builds, though it does swing down to 2.5 on a few others. The second one is mine specifically when I add +65 Mastery to gloves.





Basically 20 agi can equate to ~45-85 Mastery depending on FD's quirks. They are so close, your DPS gain from the enchant will end up being measured by intangibles like ranged downtime from LoS/distance/stuns/etc.

Issue is that the statweights on FD, as stated alot of times, swings *alot*. I just took the general "rule of thumb"-values. If you notice, they're pretty much just "dumbed down" from your results:

Dumbed down crit:
1 Agility = 2.5.
1 Crit = 1.


Your first FD value sheet crit:
2.5 Agility = 6.25
2.5 crit = 2.5



See? Just "making the numbers smaller". Forgot what my math teacher said it's called .

Anyway, easier to work with like that.

[refire]

Issue is that the statweights on FD, as stated alot of times, swings *alot*. I just took the general "rule of thumb"-values. If you notice, they're pretty much just "dumbed down" from your results:

Dumbed down crit:
1 Agility = 2.5.
1 Crit = 1.


Your first FD value sheet crit:
2.5 Agility = 6.25
2.5 crit = 2.5



See? Just "making the numbers smaller". Forgot what my math teacher said it's called .

Anyway, easier to work with like that.

Huh? You just need to find the ratio between the two stats.

In the first example it's a 1:2.37 ratio or 1 agility = 2.37 crit while mastery is a 1:3.406 ratio or 1 agility = 3.41 mastery.

Second example is 1:1.72 ratio for crit and 1:4.21 ratio for mastery.

Obviously take any calculated numbers from FD with a grain of salt. I personally see the mastery number near that ratio a lot, which puts the 20agi to gloves over mastery. I typically see the crit number being closer to agility so I choose that. Either way it's going to be around 10 simulated dps for or against you with any combination of enchants on those slots, go with what's cheapest.

[Fragma]

Your shot rotation / info is wrong. Explosive Shot takes priority over EVERYTHING and should never be delayed.

This is the single most important thing to SV DPS. You might want to update it.

[kidsafe]

Your shot rotation / info is wrong. Explosive Shot takes priority over EVERYTHING and should never be delayed.

This is the single most important thing to SV DPS. You might want to update it.

I see no issue with the shot priority as listed at the start of the thread.

Serpent Sting on a target gives you 10% extra damage to your first Explosive Shot and subsequent damage. Delaying KS is really pretty much just as bad as delaying ES sub-20%. On fights like Ultraxion and other ledge/rooted bosses where there is massive travel time, it makes sense to weave KS-ES-KS or during LnL ES-KS-ES-KS-ES, but in general it's going to be based on focus and timing.

[Illana]

Your shot rotation / info is wrong. Explosive Shot takes priority over EVERYTHING and should never be delayed.

This is the single most important thing to SV DPS. You might want to update it.

it's not wrong

SrS takes priority over everything because if you don't have it up then you're doing 10% less damage when it's not applied.

[Pope]

it's not wrong

SrS takes priority over everything because if you don't have it up then you're doing 10% less damage when it's not applied.

I think he rather means KS and BA over ES. I know it's debatable (page 19, I think), and as far as I can tell, most people would prioritize ES above everyting.

[kidsafe]

I think he rather means KS and BA over ES. I know it's debatable (page 19, I think), and as far as I can tell, most people would prioritize ES above everyting.

On a pull I prioritize ES over BA, but after that I choose BA over ES except when the target is about to die.

[Illana]

I think he rather means KS and BA over ES. I know it's debatable (page 19, I think), and as far as I can tell, most people would prioritize ES above everyting.

ah i remember now

I was going to change ES above KS on priority list but then i got some bug where my reply box was greyed out and couldnt post (no i wasn't banned) so i left it =S

[RenderedDoubt]

I can tell you know your rotation for LNL procs is kind of dumb, you NEVER EVER EVER EVER want to overlap your first ES with a second ES regardless of how much focus you have. ALWAYS ALWAYS ES AS ES AS ES because overlapping that one tick is a more loss of a dps then just ES AS ES CoS AS, which is what you want to do if you do not have enough focus, if you keep this habit up for an entire fight, you are losing out on about 9 ticks or more depending on the fight which is a HUGE LOSS.

[TJ]

I can tell you know your rotation for LNL procs is kind of dumb, you NEVER EVER EVER EVER want to overlap your first ES with a second ES regardless of how much focus you have. ALWAYS ALWAYS ES AS ES AS ES because overlapping that one tick is a more loss of a dps then just ES AS ES CoS AS, which is what you want to do if you do not have enough focus, if you keep this habit up for an entire fight, you are losing out on about 9 ticks or more depending on the fight which is a HUGE LOSS.

If you do it properly you get the 9 ticks regardless and lose none.

[Maeten]

If you do it properly you get the 9 ticks regardless and lose none.

That is, as long as you do ES-ES-X-ES you will get 9 ticks. X is a standing for any shot, e.g. AS, BA, or KS. This is true no matter your distance to the target (as long as the distance is stack) or your latency. I have not tested whether this changes if you are approaching the target, though my guess is that it will not change that much.

The other thing to note is that the results are different if you do ES-X-ES-ES, as was first reported on the wowhead forums. The ES from procs are handled in a slightly different way then normal ESs are, and hence in this case the DoTs clip. If you do ES-ES-X-ES, you will get the full 9 ticks of ES.

[Deleted]

Just wanted to say thanks to an awesome guide it has helped me a lot while leveling and gearing my hunter for 85

Big thumbs up!

[Illana]

I can tell you know your rotation for LNL procs is kind of dumb, you NEVER EVER EVER EVER want to overlap your first ES with a second ES regardless of how much focus you have. ALWAYS ALWAYS ES AS ES AS ES because overlapping that one tick is a more loss of a dps then just ES AS ES CoS AS, which is what you want to do if you do not have enough focus, if you keep this habit up for an entire fight, you are losing out on about 9 ticks or more depending on the fight which is a HUGE LOSS.

you don't lose any ticks if you space out one Explosive shot with an arcane shot

either ES>AS>ES>ES or ES>ES>AS>ES

the way dots work now you will not lose any ticks if you do it in those ways: trust me I've been doing it since firelands when I went survival, many other top hunters do it that way and it works for us

[TJ]

That is, as long as you do ES-ES-X-ES you will get 9 ticks. X is a standing for any shot, e.g. AS, BA, or KS. This is true no matter your distance to the target (as long as the distance is stack) or your latency. I have not tested whether this changes if you are approaching the target, though my guess is that it will not change that much.

The other thing to note is that the results are different if you do ES-X-ES-ES, as was first reported on the wowhead forums. The ES from procs are handled in a slightly different way then normal ESs are, and hence in this case the DoTs clip. If you do ES-ES-X-ES, you will get the full 9 ticks of ES.

That would be doing it properly yes. Not sure about this issue you're reporting though, few times I've done ES>X>ES>ES and it's worked out fine.

[kidsafe]

If you have incredibly low latency you might occasionally clip a tick in ES-ES-AS-ES, but it doesn't happen very often. It never happens to me at 100ms unless I am moving toward the target at the same time.