Prot paladin threat after 4.2

[superbotje]

Hi there,

anyone else having more problem keeping thread from the other tank during raids?
Never had the problem before 4.2 but now i really notice it on Ragnaros.
When i taunt off the other tank (Warrior), i make sure i have every threat making spell off cd (and that i have 3 holy power), pop wings, pop everything i can, and still i have to retaunt 3 times till his debuffs wear off.

Maybe it's warriors doing too much threat, cause normally with a druid or a dk as other tank, i can't even autohit without overaggro'ing them.

[Reith]

Do you have Vigilance on you when you switch? If so, you might want to consider working out a cancelaura macro for Vigilance then have him reapply when you have enough Vengeance. He could also stop DPS for a few seconds to help if that doesn't completely solve the problem.

[Rhag]

personally i don't have any problems, its the other way, everytime our other warrior tank taunts off me on Rag, i have to use Hand of salvation or stop attacking for abit or i'll get aggro back.

[Ruzhyo]

I would wager its because the stacking dot that rag puts on you maintains a high enough vengeance that using even a few abilities does mucho amounts of threat. Also since you don't taunt on a specific number of stacks every time, its tough to know exactly when your other tank hits his taunt button. Had this happen to me a few times last night, DK would taunt a half a second before I'd land a SOTR crit, and then I'd immediately have aggro again. Just have to communicate and watch your threat.

[zoefschildpad]

The warrior probably has vigilance on you and a full stack of vengeance that isn't going to go away, tell him to stop dps when you taunt and/or salv him. I always have to stop dps for a bit when our warrior tank taunts off me

[Szemere]

Depends, maybe you are full-survival geared, so reforged away all your expertise and hit, while perhaps the warrior did not. Also, the warrior could be just fully single-target threat specced, and if he does not hold back for a sec when you take over, but just mindlessly keeps doing full threat rotation, chances are he gets it off you indeed.

[Deleted]

Tank with no vengeance taunts off a tank with full vengeance.... basic common sense says hes lacking some 15k attack power if fully stacked.

[tjanson]

Tank with no vengeance taunts off a tank with full vengeance.... basic common sense says hes lacking some 15k attack power if fully stacked.

No flipping kidding.

Cataclysm Tank Swap Fights 101: After the second tank taunts, the first tank stops attacking for a few seconds because he has vengeance and the second tank does not. OMG BRAND NEW INFORMATION IS BRAND NEW

OP: Tell your other tank to stop being a god damned moron.

[Deleted]

personally i don't have any problems, its the other way, everytime our other warrior tank taunts off me on Rag, i have to use Hand of salvation or stop attacking for abit or i'll get aggro back.

Yeah I double tap escape to make sure I am not targetting Rag. Generally our Feral Druid doesn't have any issues building threat regardless, but I have a couple of times pulled back off him when I have been careless.

Pulling back is especially bad on Rag with the stacking dot and your DPS contribution is completely irrelvant as it is so small.

When I'm not tanking on tank switch type fights I tend to just make sure I have a stack of 3 holy power built up just to be on the safe side. However going back into your normal rotation is often both risk and unecessary - This applies to all tanks.

[Deleted]

Prot Pala in my guild single target generally does a stable 18k dps, at least on Rag anyway. Which does add up over 10 minutes i guess, Its usually only the first taunt this matters on anyway just salv yourself as they taunt off. Or if your taunting first, get 3 HP stacks and wings, Maybe even get Inq up for that first shield to.

[Deleted]

I can't check my logs due to a recent guild change, but what really counts on Ragnaros is individual awareness and not the tanks squeezing out as much dps as possible

[knumskul]

No flipping kidding.

Cataclysm Tank Swap Fights 101: After the second tank taunts, the first tank stops attacking for a few seconds because he has vengeance and the second tank does not. OMG BRAND NEW INFORMATION IS BRAND NEW

OP: Tell your other tank to stop being a god damned moron.

You'd be surprised how many tanks don't know that. They complain that other tank sucks and can't build threat when 1 has full stack of vengeance and other has 0.

[Deleted]

You'd be surprised how many tanks don't know that. They complain that other tank sucks and can't build threat when 1 has full stack of vengeance and other has 0.

It is something that is compounded by vengeance. On Saurfang the Paladin tank at the time could pull massively more single target threat than my frost DK, partly due to gear. There is no good reason to be careless when it can cause a wipe, unless you are on a fight that is such a tight DPS race that tank DPS matters. Which isn't the case on Ragnaros normal, or any of the other normal FL bosses or Saurfang for that matter.

[Téuntjûh]

Same what's happing on the BH bosses in pugs.
Tank 1 tanks the boss and gets vengeance.
Tank 2 taunts.
Tank 1 overaggro's instantly due to high vengeance.
Tank 2: Why did you taunt! F)#$#!#!!

Just ask your other tank to stop attacking the boss for 5 seconds, you should be ok after that

[Deleted]

Prot Pala in my guild single target generally does a stable 18k dps, at least on Rag anyway. Which does add up over 10 minutes i guess, Its usually only the first taunt this matters on anyway just salv yourself as they taunt off. Or if your taunting first, get 3 HP stacks and wings, Maybe even get Inq up for that first shield to.

18k single target? I'd like to know how he manages that without full out exp/hit capping... and even then.

Or did you mean TPS? 18k TPS sounds a lot more realistic.

[Mustakrakish]

Depends, maybe you are full-survival geared, so reforged away all your expertise and hit, while perhaps the warrior did not. Also, the warrior could be just fully single-target threat specced, and if he does not hold back for a sec when you take over, but just mindlessly keeps doing full threat rotation, chances are he gets it off you indeed.

Seriously, any tank who is getting the boss taunted off them who keeps on doing their prioritisation just HAS to be a bad player. Also, the only talents that come to mind for a full 'single-target threat spec' is the 100% extra SS damage with SB up, Incite, Cruelty and War Academy. Which, you can have all those with Thunderstruck and Blood and Thunder and still have your survival talents.

---------- Post added 2011-07-12 at 09:24 AM ----------

18k single target? I'd like to know how he manages that without full out exp/hit capping... and even then.

Or did you mean TPS? 18k TPS sounds a lot more realistic.

Vengeance, mehbe?

[Deleted]

18k single target? I'd like to know how he manages that without full out exp/hit capping... and even then.

Or did you mean TPS? 18k TPS sounds a lot more realistic.

no 18k dps, the stacking fire bleed dot thing guarentees constant vengeance. So he just dps's hard. and no he doesnt have exp or hit.

edit* http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ht...=12192&e=12806

Thats a a pretty stable 18k while on boss, dips for both transitions ofc

[superbotje]

Vengeance indeed most likely the problem here.

Set up a salvation macro so i can pop that on the other tank before i taunt.

[psathyanhome]

Yesterday was the first time i tanked rag,.. last week it was a warrior and DK tank on our guild and I wasnt there. DK tank pulled the boss at start and when i tried to taunt off the boss from him for the first time I had a lil agro issue cos he had full stacks of vengance where as I did not have any. But i poped my wings and 3 holy power and was able to hold agro even though he was smacking the boss and his agro started to drop slowly. Right after the first set of taunts we had I had more agro than him every time he taunts off me. I did 2 things,

-whenever i had my salvation I used it on myself and my threat dropped like a rock.
-or if my sal was off CD I stopped attacking boss for 5-7 sec and started casting divine light on the DK, something you can do instead of standing there.


So if you are a pally tank as I guess, you should always be having salvation in your action bar and dont hesitate to use it on yourself. Your other tank should also be mindful of his agro, be it a warrior or a druid tank.

[Deleted]

Having tanked all the fights with a war tank, i haven't had any aggro problems, normally hes the one struggling to keep up with me (full avoidance gemmed/reforged)