Jaws of Defeat

[Deleted]

Sorry if this is a re-post... didn't see another thread. I picked up Jaws of Defeat yesterday and played around with it a bit. My strategy has been to save it for a healing intensive situation (i.e. the more heals being thrown out the more likely to stack 10 mana-saving things) and even to try to use higher-mana cost heals towards the end (better savings after 7+ stacks?). It's kind of a weird trinket though... when I activate it, I really feel like I need to suddenly spam as many heals as possible (without overhealing) to reach a stack of 10... and what... did I save any mana doing that? lol... I replaced Core of Ripeness with the Jaws, but Core of Ripeness felt more like I was actually getting mana back. >_< Anyone have some suggestions on using this thing, or can maybe comfort me that spamming 10 heals in 20whatever seconds is actually saving mana?

:}

Ninja Edit: Penance didn't seem to be giving me 3 stacks when used, which was reported on Wowhead... I guess it makes sense, you "cast" Penance once and it ticks three times... ;p PW:S with Glyph did raise the stacks though. :}

[Deleted]

I'm afraid to say that the Jaws are pretty terrible for priests.

You'll never get any mana 'back' from this thing because you have to spend SO much mana trying to make the most of the reduction buff anyway.
As you only have 20 seconds you're kind of limited to instant casts to if you want to hit the cap and what does that leave us with? Lots of PW:S or rolling renews (with the offf ProM or Circle in there)?
Spamming shields will still be super expensive, and the situation has to be right to roll renews and not have them be wasted.

Long story short, the static int is nice but as a 'regen' or utility trinket, it's just not that good. Use it but don't force youtself to get all the stacks with wasted or expensive spells. You'll end up in a worse place mana wise.

[Deleted]

Maybe shield spam is viable if you combine it with PI and Inner Will?

[Deleted]

Hehe, that was really my impression too... That being said, let's say you know there's some crazy AOE going to happen... you've used Barrier (this is from Disc perspective eh), and Divine Hymn, or you just feel like PW:S spamming a bit. I would probably pop Power Infusion (lower mana cost), use Jaws and spam 8 to 10 PW:S or whatever. Between PI and the Jaws you can probably get away with this mana wize... whether it's still a good idea, is another question. Thanks for the feedback!

---------- Post added 2011-07-12 at 01:58 PM ----------

Maybe shield spam is viable if you combine it with PI and Inner Will?

Oop, you posted while I posted - but yeah... pretty much this? lol

[phyx]

I didnt use PI on myself for quite some time. Unless you are hps whore and boss is on farm for weeks than you could use it yourself. Otherwise it is a waste.

[Deleted]

I bit of math:

2min CD/ 20sek duration.

You need 10 casts to stack the buff up to 10, every cast beyond 10 will have the full manacost reduction of 1100.
While stacking you save 4950 mana and 1100 mana with every additional cast.
Mp/5 based on a 6min/ 5min/ 4min bossfight PER USAGE.

1,5sek GCD:
4950 + 3 * 1100 mana = 8250 mana = 114,6 / 137,5 / 171,9 mp/5

1,4sek GCD:
4950 + 4 * 1100 mana = 9350 mana = 129,7 / 155,8 / 194,8 mp/5

1,3sek GCD
4950 + 5 * 1100 mana = 10450 mana = 141,1 / 171,2 / 217,7 mp/5

1,2sek GCD
4950 + 6 * 1100 mana = 11550 mana = 160,4 / 192,5 / 240,6 mp/5

1,1sek GCD
4950 + 8 * 1100 mana = 13850 mana = 192,4 / 230,8 / 288,5 mp/5

1sek GCD
4950 + 10 * 1100 mana = 15950 mana = 221,5 / 263,8 / 332,3 mp/5

That's the highest possible "regen" though... lag or casts > 1,5sek base will dump it.
Very situational. Bubblolspam with PI should net the best result as should Renew-spam with 1sek GCD.

[Deleted]

I didnt use PI on myself for quite some time. Unless you are hps whore and boss is on farm for weeks than you could use it yourself. Otherwise it is a waste.

I disagree. :] PI is freaking useful when I have to push out a ton of heals to top the raid up after an AOE blitz... there are so many situations like this in Firelands that I won't bother to list them. Ah well... that's just me I guess.

[Mazi]

I disagree. :] PI is freaking useful when I have to push out a ton of heals to top the raid up after an AOE blitz... there are so many situations like this in Firelands that I won't bother to list them. Ah well... that's just me I guess.

It's not just you. PI should be used on yourself. If your DPS is so behind that you have to PI 1 person then your raid has issues. The only time I use PI on a DPS is when I know I won't make use of it for 3 min, or on a fight like Baleroc - although looking back on it now PI can help you get stacks up faster...

[Desminn]

this trinket always semmed kinda 'meh' to me.

but i heal with a holy pally and my current trinkets prvide plenty of regen and have the throughput too.....so ill stick with those and heal how i like to rather than trying to time my heals around a trinket.

trinkets work for you not the other way around

[Deleted]

this trinket always semmed kinda 'meh' to me.

but i heal with a holy pally and my current trinkets prvide plenty of regen and have the throughput too.....so ill stick with those and heal how i like to rather than trying to time my heals around a trinket.

trinkets work for you not the other way around

Hehe, I'm super lazy... I much prefer a trinket w/ EQUIP vs. USE... wtf, I have to use it?! man... c'mon...

[Syrrah]

Not really impressed with any of the healing trinkets this teir, probably going to stick with DMC:T and Fall of Mortality, maybe pick up the Crit/Int trinket from the vendor and reforge to haste

[zakaluka]

It looks like the only 'best use' for these t12 trinkets is for static int. After thinking through the discussion I had on here before, I've decided to be pretty conservative using the jaws. I'll trigger it as soon as raid damage spikes a little so I know I'll be chaincasting for a bit, but I won't change my spell priority at all. Also I'll try to save the final use for during blood lust.

I do think though that the gap in priority between int and spirit grew. That is, int has become more valuable and spirit maybe a little less valuable. So both trinkets eye of power / jaws might still be useful if only for the int. Here's my reasoning:

With t12 2set, our 'efficiency' single target heals are literally a manareturn.. With the t12 bonus, Heal spam will only costs an average of 1350 mp5 - and most of us get 3500-4000 mp5 combat regen at current spirit levels. In terms of effic, heal will break 19 HPM (as a measure DH is worth 21 HPM), gheal will be greater than 7 HPM. In t11, Heal only boasted about 5.7 HPM, Gheal about 4.5. Blizzard de-emphasizes spirit based mana return and gives us throughput trinkets rather than regen trinkets, plus mana return based on the number of single target heals we're casting.

Quite simply put, with all this in play, being able to fall back on Heal more often is going to be far more beneficial in t12 gear than it ever was in t11. 65% of the time spent casting Heal is literally idle manareturn - in t11 this figure was more around 20-30%. As such posessing higher int will be extremely valuable to make your spells bigger so you can rely on efficiency spells more often.

The procs aren't that great, just to add some character for them.

[ramennoodleking]

It looks like the only 'best use' for these t12 trinkets is for static int. After thinking through the discussion I had on here before, I've decided to be pretty conservative using the jaws. I'll trigger it as soon as raid damage spikes a little so I know I'll be chaincasting for a bit, but I won't change my spell priority at all. Also I'll try to save the final use for during blood lust.

I do think though that the gap in priority between int and spirit grew. That is, int has become more valuable and spirit maybe a little less valuable. So both trinkets eye of power / jaws might still be useful if only for the int. Here's my reasoning:

With t12 2set, our 'efficiency' single target heals are literally a manareturn.. With the t12 bonus, Heal spam will only costs an average of 1350 mp5 - and most of us get 3500-4000 mp5 combat regen at current spirit levels. In terms of effic, heal will break 19 HPM (as a measure DH is worth 21 HPM), gheal will be greater than 7 HPM. In t11, Heal only boasted about 5.7 HPM, Gheal about 4.5. Blizzard de-emphasizes spirit based mana return and gives us throughput trinkets rather than regen trinkets, plus mana return based on the number of single target heals we're casting.

Quite simply put, with all this in play, being able to fall back on Heal more often is going to be far more beneficial in t12 gear than it ever was in t11. 65% of the time spent casting Heal is literally idle manareturn - in t11 this figure was more around 20-30%. As such posessing higher int will be extremely valuable to make your spells bigger so you can rely on efficiency spells more often.

The procs aren't that great, just to add some character for them.

I havn't gotten 2 set t12 yet, but isnt it only base mana? So it doesn't matter how much int you have. Also, does the effect "stack?" Or at least replenish itself upon cast?

[Desminn]

Hehe, I'm super lazy... I much prefer a trinket w/ EQUIP vs. USE... wtf, I have to use it?! man... c'mon...

ehh i mix it up as best i can...one on use one passive eqiup.

like core with DMC:T/FoM

[zakaluka]

I havn't gotten 2 set t12 yet, but isnt it only base mana? So it doesn't matter how much int you have. Also, does the effect "stack?" Or at least replenish itself upon cast?

correct, the amount of mana return is static. The point I'm making is bigger heals = more time spent in efficiency mode = far more mana regenerated.

stacking int won't make the manareturn larger in any way. All it does is allow you to switch back to Heal more often, which is now a lot more like standing idle than it was before.

[Deleted]

The more instant casts you do the better. This trinket is best for
Hotting druids > holy priest PoM+Renew Spam > Disc priest Bubble spam > Shaman
Pallys are not able to spam instant casts, so this trinket will only be an option when throughput>mana conservation.
Plus every healer on tank healing duties who only spams casts would prefer other trinkets.

[Deleted]

So the Eye of Blazing Power pretty much sucks (from what I've read...), Fiery Quintessence gives +383 spirit which isn't something I like at all... just feels wasted on a trinket... + the on-use intellect which I also dislike... :} Jaws of Defeat require some serious lolbubblespam as Disc priest to make it ?worthwhile? but at least the Int is nice... oh oh... and the Moonwell Chalice is +340 int, non-hc, makes a nice mastery giving moonwell but isn't available until the other two parts of Molten Front are done... lol.................................................. Looks like Fall of Mortality will by friend for a long time. >_<

meh! <3 Thanks for all the replies re: Jaws btw. They confirmed my dislike. ;]