Warlocks in PvP

[Timun]

In 1v1 situations, an "overpowered" class will generally win.

Warlocks perform *very* well in group situations, which is why one probably doesn't see too many in battlegrounds, and one might see many more in arena situations.

If you want to be good at dueling... honestly, why would you roll a Warlock? Go with a Rogue, Warrior, DK, Paladin, etc.

In fact, dueling doesn't even matter. RBGs and arenas do.

Where good Warlocks really shine.

[alexw]

Whoever complains about warlocks being bad, should eighter reroll, or l2p.
Locks are the strongest class in 3v3 with the most reliable cc in the game, while being able to do damage while down, aswell as portal up to the bridge on "lock-edge arena" or up behind the boxes in the "Anti-Hunter Sewers" locks are increasingly good at arenas with multiple levels, and are quite literally close to unkillable to anything WITHOUT a warrior enhancement or deathknight, the peel a warlock can bring to a melee with no fear immunity is quite literally ridiculus, and it's more than insane when you consider that the melee has dots ticking on him, not any dots, the most powerfull dots in the game. That's where it's at really, Warlocks almost unkillable in most setups, killable in 2-3, immortal in 40-80% of the glad cutoff. If you think warlocks are bad atm, check how many gladiator teams contained a warlock, that's right over 60%. That's how weak warlocks are.

Thats a load of crap tbh. If we were as strong as you say we are why are there currently only four locks in the top 100 2v2 teams???
And our dots are super-powerful... lol.... they are laughably weak in fact....

What you miss out is that warlocks are not innately strong (we are not any melee will tear us up 1v1), but that we have incredible synergy with other classes through spammable fear and dispel protection. Thats why we are so prevalent in 3v3. And you can ask just about any pvp'ing lock and they would gladly trade away most of that synergy, for strengths in our own right, so we are not so terribly co-dependant on other classes to be pvp viable.

[Timun]

Thats a load of crap tbh. If we were as strong as you say we are why are there currently only four locks in the top 100 2v2 teams???
And our dots are super-powerful... lol.... they are laughably weak in fact....

What you miss out is that warlocks are not innately strong (we are not any melee will tear us up 1v1), but that we have incredible synergy with other classes through spammable fear and dispel protection. Thats why we are so prevalent in 3v3. And you can ask just about any pvp'ing lock and they would gladly trade away most of that synergy, for strengths in our own right, so we are not so terribly co-dependant on other classes to be pvp viable.

To be honest, 2s should *not* be any form of a measurement for how powerful a class is.

Also, if you like battlegrounds... don't play a Warlock, in my opinion. I would go with a DK, personally -- but hey, DKs aren't for everyone. We all have our own tastes.

Regardless, tastes eventually come to a grinding halt when you play a Warlock, alone, in a battleground rather than one of the current melee classes.

[jimmy valmer]

isnt demo even remotely decent in pvp? I think that it favours duels and bgs mostly ?

[asb]

Thats a load of crap tbh. If we were as strong as you say we are why are there currently only four locks in the top 100 2v2 teams???
And our dots are super-powerful... lol.... they are laughably weak in fact....

What you miss out is that warlocks are not innately strong (we are not any melee will tear us up 1v1), but that we have incredible synergy with other classes through spammable fear and dispel protection. Thats why we are so prevalent in 3v3. And you can ask just about any pvp'ing lock and they would gladly trade away most of that synergy, for strengths in our own right, so we are not so terribly co-dependant on other classes to be pvp viable.

Well, first, there are only a few warlocks in high-end 2v2 teams mostly because they aren't as built for it as some other classes. 2v2 usually favors a broad toolset to a narrower one. More importantly, 2v2 isn't considered a balancing standard or even a real competition. Serious PvP has been 3v3 arena since always.

You may not put out the same kind of single-target damage as a warrior, but it still isn't something to shrug off if you know what you're doing. Your real potential, though, is multitarget DoTs. If you can maintain respectable multitarget uptime in 3s, the opposing healer won't be able to keep up with you. To me, that's pretty much the definition of strong damage in PvP.

The current state of warlocks isn't "weak." Yes, in most one-on-one or even two-on-two scenarios, warlocks are pretty much countered by melee. That doesn't mean they're no good. As an example: Frost mages counter melee. Again, this is especially the case in smaller or less organized groups. Does that mean all melee are worthless? I mean, they have a counter, so what good are they? Am I doing this right? Warlocks have a few specific strengths, and that earns them a place in competitive PvP. They don't have to do everything themselves to be effective.

It seems that all you really want is a toolset oriented towards kiting. I actually don't know a single warlock that would trade their fear, damage potential, or dispel protection for frostbolt. Warlocks have their own niche, and don't need to be transformed into something else. If you don't like that niche, I suggest trying out the class you actually want to play. Either the class suits you and you're happy, or you'll start noticing what you took for granted about your old character. I've done this a few too many times myself, and I don't believe I have any delusions about how classes work anymore.

I know it's weird to play something that has a narrow range of effectiveness, especially in a game where most classes have been homogenized into the same thing in different colors, but uniqueness really keeps things more interesting.

[JustinLee]

I have to say if locks sucks , Boomkins and Hunters have to delete their toons.

[Deleted]

Well i know im not the best pvp player but i think warlocks are annoying with their fears and drain life grrr

[alexw]

Well, first, there are only a few warlocks in high-end 2v2 teams mostly because they aren't as built for it as some other classes. 2v2 usually favors a broad toolset to a narrower one. More importantly, 2v2 isn't considered a balancing standard or even a real competition. Serious PvP has been 3v3 arena since always.

You may not put out the same kind of single-target damage as a warrior, but it still isn't something to shrug off if you know what you're doing. Your real potential, though, is multitarget DoTs. If you can maintain respectable multitarget uptime in 3s, the opposing healer won't be able to keep up with you. To me, that's pretty much the definition of strong damage in PvP.

The current state of warlocks isn't "weak." Yes, in most one-on-one or even two-on-two scenarios, warlocks are pretty much countered by melee. That doesn't mean they're no good. As an example: Frost mages counter melee. Again, this is especially the case in smaller or less organized groups. Does that mean all melee are worthless? I mean, they have a counter, so what good are they? Am I doing this right? Warlocks have a few specific strengths, and that earns them a place in competitive PvP. They don't have to do everything themselves to be effective.

It seems that all you really want is a toolset oriented towards kiting. I actually don't know a single warlock that would trade their fear, damage potential, or dispel protection for frostbolt. Warlocks have their own niche, and don't need to be transformed into something else. If you don't like that niche, I suggest trying out the class you actually want to play. Either the class suits you and you're happy, or you'll start noticing what you took for granted about your old character. I've done this a few too many times myself, and I don't believe I have any delusions about how classes work anymore.

I know it's weird to play something that has a narrow range of effectiveness, especially in a game where most classes have been homogenized into the same thing in different colors, but uniqueness really keeps things more interesting.

Ok, firstly 2v2 doesnt favour toolsets, 2v2 favours high dps output class thus the domination of warriors last season. 2v2's have been that way for ages. Warlock damage is ok, but that is about it. What we deal on 2/3 targets others deal on 1 target much faster and easier. It'll be the same again in a couple weeks when melee's get their new pvp weapons. The mana cost is lower on healers from us as well since they don't need to use big heals when the damage is over time and not burst.

The differential on dot uptime on 3 vs 2 targets is not so great as to make our damage significantly higher in a 3v3 scenario when you count in the higher number of interrupts and the need to cc/snare/etc. Our damage output is available cast time limited rather than number-of-targets limited. So our damage isnt as strong as you think. If it were then you'd see double afflock/healer teams - which are in fact non-existant.

So why are locks so prevalent in 3v3s then? The answer is of course our synergy via dispel protection and fear. This also explains why double afflock/healer teams are non-existant. Double fear does not synergize, and double dispel protection does not make up for the better effective dps of other classes such as in LSD 2.0 last season, or shadowcleave, or X=anything other than lock this season.

As for being orientated towards kiting, that is not something i want whatsoever. The problem is we are way too codependant on others. I have heard other warlocks joke that blizz should change our description to "warlocks the codependent class" So many of our abilities only work when we are in 3+ groups with healer/x, so much so that we are totally gimped outside of that as our extremely low numbers in 2v2, random bg's, etc show. For example take dark intent, demon armor, demonic ageis. All three are strong signature lock abilites, yet need team members to be more than minimally effective. UA dispel protection works along the same lines. The question i have to ask is any other dps class/spec so co-dependant on others in pvp, and if they are not then why should warlocks be this way?

[Jeffari]

Locks are by far one of the best classes in the 3v3/5v5 and even r.bg bracket. The amount of pressure we can put out with multidotting, fears and interrupts is insane.

MLS has been around for ages for saying its Fotm comp is complete BS. shaman/lock/x works and will always work since s1.

It can most definitely be annoying to get trained by double melee but that's why you have 2 other partners, to help peels. Make good use of your demon portal (especially on blades edge and RoV with pillars)

Don't even get me started with bg's. give me 15 seconds with demon soul, on use trinket proc + power torrent, lust and I'll pump out massive damage to 10+ players in no time. I'd be disappointed if I wasn't miles ahead on the damage done by the end of the BG.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Locks are by far one of the best classes in the 3v3/5v5 and even r.bg bracket. The amount of pressure we can put out with multidotting, fears and interrupts is insane.

MLS has been around for ages for saying its Fotm comp is complete BS. shaman/lock/x works and will always work since s1.

It can most definitely be annoying to get trained by double melee but that's why you have 2 other partners, to help peels. Make good use of your demon portal (especially on blades edge and RoV with pillars)

Don't even get me started with bg's. give me 15 seconds with demon soul, on use trinket proc + power torrent, lust and I'll pump out massive damage to 10+ players in no time. I'd be disappointed if I wasn't miles ahead on the damage done by the end of the BG.

The bull shit is strong with this one.

Edit: I find it hilarious how you signature doesn't link your warlock ... you know the one that can pump out massive damage* to a target in 1.5 sec.

*Massive damage requires the following buffs: demon soul, on use trinket proc + power torrent, lust.

[Bakis]

Playing a warlock well has a very high skillfloor (the highest of all classes I would say). They really shine in 3v3 but as fearbombers and dispelprotection.
Melee will faceroll even in a random bg if there is no healer around and god forbid you dont have a healthstone off cd and a teleport up 35-40 yards away.

Warlocks can be truly awesome though, but to get there it takes 10 times the skill that many other classes demand.
The damage is pathetic and every time you score a kill you can be proud that you outskilled them cos if you are bad you are dead faster than fast

Personally I wish they fixed the dispelsystem thats fucking up PvP entirely, only then do BLZ dare to give locks their damage back so they can actually be a balanced class outside the sandbox battle in 3v3.

[Deleted]

The question i have to ask is any other dps class/spec so co-dependant on others in pvp, and if they are not then why should warlocks be this way?

And what a good question it is....

[ultimar235]

Locks are predictable IMO.

Deathcoil - trinket
Fear -interrupt
Instant HoT/AxeToss/SF - use defensive cooldown

The only way 1v1 a melee can lose against a lock is if the locks gear is sufficient enough that he can survive the burst. Then the lock is free to cast fear and there is no way for the melee to counter this.

[Wolfdragon]

I'm just gonna put this here, as to how afflock/healer teams don't exist, while true, that doesn't prove your point about synergy, as Shadowplay is here for 5 or well 6 seasons already, and it's glad viable, so infact fears do synergyse well together, the main difference is, a shadowpriest has a strong defencive as opposed to the 0 defencive cooldown warlock.