1. #1

    Ragnaros Tank defenses ignored?

    Hello guys
    On 10-man Ragnaros last week we had some tanking problems!
    Stacks of Burning Wound were taken properly, but tanks seem to have their defenses(dodge, parry and block) ignored on some tries.Analysing logs, we can see a huge difference between tries.
    They were at minimum range from Ragnaros (we'll change this to maximum range, cuz of healing range) and 6y from each other(we're thinking about stack tanks).
    Any tips?
    Thanks
    Last edited by Killerdo; 2011-07-18 at 06:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Could you link the logs?
    My first guess would be poorly executed strafing, or broken shield/armor.
    "We've got void zones, made of fire, on TOP of fire, that explode if you move. With fire."

  3. #3
    Well i dont have logs to post =/ Will ask the tank(Raid leader)
    We thought about broken shield/armor too, but tanks said that wasnt the problem
    I was thinking about an "bug spot" where tank defenses are ignored.Is it possible?

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdo View Post
    I was thinking about an "bug spot" where tank defenses are ignored.Is it possible?
    If the boss hits them from behind, that ignores avoidance. It's pretty much possible that the boss is bugged and thinks the tanks have turned their backs

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  5. #5
    I very much doubt that he's bugged in that way. We've nver had any issues with this and i've never heard about it before either. It could be coincidence that tanks just have bad rng on some attempts or they are strafing wrong.

  6. #6
    If you're the only Killerdo in the US from Extremus Vis/Gurubashi, these might be your logs:

    First try: 3 people dying of lava wave, nothing to say here.
    2nd Try: MT dies because of lacking heals ---> resurrection --> and here begins the mystery: he takes 4 BLOCKED hits from Rag > 45k in 5 seconds and dies again. He only received 17k heal from earth shield in this period, again heals missing. His shield wasn't broken, he did an avengers shield of 8829 after the rez. Maybe several other armor slots were broken?
    3rd try: Sons of Flame reach hammer
    4th: 2 die of the knockback, rest of sons
    5th: same
    6th: sons again
    7th: Your Holy Pala kills himself with Hand of sacrifice on the tank, I liked this ^^
    8th: Lava wave
    9th: your Priest takes 140k fall damage (levitate ftw)
    10th: sons again
    11th and last try: tank dies, too less heal, rez, tank dies again in a mix of normal melee hits, molten seed, burning wound and too less heal

    So all in all your main problem seems to be the mechanics.

    EDIT: Your Pala tank Lawfeer doesn't use either his 20% or his 50% Dmg reduction Cooldown in all your tries and he wonders why he takes this much damage. Lay on hands was only used once in 11 tries. Inspection shows he is expertise capped with 4% hit. In contrast his main damage ability is melee (wtf) CS is only 2nd. At least he uses his raid cooldown.
    Last edited by Adanosa; 2011-07-18 at 09:05 AM.
    "We've got void zones, made of fire, on TOP of fire, that explode if you move. With fire."

  7. #7
    yeah, with that kind of record, I dunno if I'd trust the tank not to have his back to the boss or broken armor. Even a cat on a keyboard will eventually hit a cd.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Adanosa View Post
    If you're the only Killerdo in the US from Extremus Vis/Gurubashi, these might be your logs:
    ^ That pretty much says it all. There is no bug, your tanks need to do 2 things to take less dmg:

    1) CDs, both of your tanks (especially the pally) are very CD shy. They need to stop worrying about saving them for emergencies and just start popping CDs like candy. Rotate them and try to have 1 for every time they tank. Also your pally has access to WoG, a 30k (60k crit with high chance to crit) heal on a 20 second CD - 20 second cooldown and he used it all of 3 times in all your attempts.

    2) You seem to be waiting way too long before taunting off for Burning Wounds. On our kill Buring Wounds only did about 30% as much dmg as Rag's melee, on yours it's around 50%. Make sure tanks taunt off each other as soon as they stacks fall off, don't wait for the other tank to get to X stacks. When yours fall off you taunt.

    Healers seem fine, I think if your tanks handle the fight better they'll take less damage.


  9. #9
    i dont get it how ppl get to ragnaros, with such healers +tanks... awful :X sorry

    this makes me sad, a tank that doesnt use CDs, healer who dont heal tanks for 10+ seconds, and wondering why he dies

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Adanosa View Post
    If you're the only Killerdo in the US from Extremus Vis/Gurubashi, these might be your logs:
    Unfortunately Extremus Vis has lots of 10man cores, and that's not our core. Our logs from Ragnaros aren't up.
    The weird thing is: Our druid tank took an totally healable damage, but our Pally(and our Warr later) tanks were raped. I suppose that's becouse of druid's mastery.
    We'll have some trys today, then i'll post some logs/new if changes worked.

  11. #11
    I apologize for having connected the logs to you but it was your name and they are from last week. GL on Rag!
    "We've got void zones, made of fire, on TOP of fire, that explode if you move. With fire."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Adanosa View Post
    I apologize for having connected the logs to you but it was your name and they are from last week. GL on Rag!
    You dont have to apologize, was trying to help! Thanks!

  13. #13
    If your tanks are having their dodge/parry/block ignored, the only answer is that they are turning their back to the mob at some point.

  14. #14
    Sup, i'm one of the tanks from Killerdo Core, the Warrior tank "Signatus".
    the problem was the block, i got 5 Full melee hits. thats like one on a million chance. and it wasn't only one time. sadly i don't think theres a log of it.
    i'm pretty sure its a position issue, when i got a bress and got the boss i was gettin blocks/dodges/parrys at normal rates, hardly got a 50k+ hit.
    i'm thinkin that i was too close to ragnaros and he was somehow hitting my back.

    However, i gonna try to repos and see if i'm gettin too many full melee hits. its not a major issue, but its kinda stressing when i die because of too many full melee hits on me.


    weird how nobody else got this kind of problem, i think its because most guides says to you get at max range from ragnaros, while i'm being close to him most of the time.
    and no, i'm not turnin my back to ragnaros( is that even possible? lol)
    btw thanks for the help!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DeuZWw View Post
    Sup, i'm one of the tanks from Killerdo Core, the Warrior tank "Signatus".
    the problem was the block, i got 5 Full melee hits. thats like one on a million chance. and it wasn't only one time. sadly i don't think theres a log of it.
    i'm pretty sure its a position issue, when i got a bress and got the boss i was gettin blocks/dodges/parrys at normal rates, hardly got a 50k+ hit.
    i'm thinkin that i was too close to ragnaros and he was somehow hitting my back.

    However, i gonna try to repos and see if i'm gettin too many full melee hits. its not a major issue, but its kinda stressing when i die because of too many full melee hits on me.


    weird how nobody else got this kind of problem, i think its because most guides says to you get at max range from ragnaros, while i'm being close to him most of the time.
    and no, i'm not turnin my back to ragnaros( is that even possible? lol)
    btw thanks for the help!
    We killed him the other night with a pally and a druid (me) tanking. We were both in so close our toes were almost touching the lava at times and we didn't have this issue?


    Its pretty easy to turn your back to rag when you are tanking this fight...

    Moving back and forwards for seeds or out of engulfing leaves lots of room to get smacked in the back. You need to be strafing, not running forwards with rag hitting you in the side (pretty much your back at some angles).



    Or maybe you just got unlucky

  16. #16
    It happens every now and then. We've had times where our tanks would take three 60k (unmitigated) hits in a row (we run Pally and Warrior). It's just something you have to be prepared for.

    We have two dedicated healers on the tanks (Shaman and Pally), and one Druid on the rest of the raid. On normal mode, the damage to the rest of the raid is really a joke. Our Shaman and Pally will occasionally help with incidental damage, but the vast majority of their healing, and the vast majority of the damage in this fight in general, is on the tanks.

  17. #17
    Also running pally/war for this fight. I've found them to be harder to heal on normal Rag than a bear/DK but still doable. At times we also stand right up next to the boss and never have any issues with impossible damage so not sure how to help you. Logs would be useful I guess.


  18. #18
    Melee hits are blockable/avoidable
    Magic (fire) damage is resistable

    Proof: http://youtu.be/Z6KUB7Y22kY (Tank POV) - See incoming damage on left hand side.


    The only way your tank is taking full damange is RNG (low %) or having his back to the boss. Could happen when he steps back for engulfing, etc.

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