Thread: (Holy) Mastery

  1. #1

    (Holy) Mastery

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Echo_of_Light

    After reading that and noticing how askmrrobot.com keeps reforging me out of haste and into mastery, I was wondering if my aim to balance haste and mastery is not such a great idea and I should focus on mastery more than haste?

  2. #2
    They all work, heavy HST, heavy MST, or a balance. I personally run heavy HST in a 10man druid/shaman/holy setup and it works flawless. You might find MST or a balance working better depending on raid composition, size and your playstyle.
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  3. #3
    Both haste and mastery are viable secondary stats to focus on. I'm personally a haste freak, but people focusing on mastery are doing just as well. There is no consensus on the matter, and there is no evidence that one is better than the other. So pick a stat you want - or mix and match if that is your preference. It's really a question on whether the stat you chose matches your healing style. Some people love to land heals "just in time" and like to have a little flexibility in timings (haste), other people like the extra healing and like to have the flexibility in mana (mastery). Whatever floats your boat.

    Ask Mr Robot is somewhat schizophrenic in this aspect. I've seen it telling me to reforge one mastery item to haste, and the next haste item to mastery - all in the same gear setup. I've even been told to reforge spirit to crit on my neck once, but I also believe they fixed that shortly after

    Either way, I'm not going to recommend following it's recommendations when it comes to secondary stats. Ask Mr Robot is good at telling you which upgrades are available, and where you are lacking enchants and gems. But take it's stat weights with a little skepticism.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    Ask Mr Robot is somewhat schizophrenic in this aspect. I've seen it telling me to reforge one mastery item to haste, and the next haste item to mastery - all in the same gear setup.
    A situation like this is usually caused b/c a target % is trying to be reached, either b/c it is some sort of breakpoint, or stat weights shift above a certain threshold. Reforging takes a set 40% of a chosen stat and converts it. Reforging haste to mastery on one item, and mastery to haste on another is just some fine tweaking to maximize your gear.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Minus the fact that there are no worthy (reachable) or tangible haste breakpoints for holy. Read: 12.5% haste is not some magical plateau to reach

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  6. #6
    What I find myself doing on these new fights in Firelands, is sticking more towards Mastery. The healing, especially with heroics, can be a bit intensive. I tried both a Mastery and a Haste reforge/gem and I found myself running oom with the haste build. It could be poor mana management on my behalf, however, it seemed better with Mastery. On fights like Beth'tilac Heroic, Rhyolith Heroic, I would definitely favor a mastery build just due to the high AoE damage, the mastery tick always goes to good use. On the other hand, Shannox Heroic, Majordomo Heroic, and Baleroc Heroic, I'd much rather favor haste, simply because there really isn't all that much to heal except tanks.
    In general, I tend to try and balance the two. I will aim for the 12.5% haste for an extra tick of renew(Flame me now!). But, if my gear has spirit/haste or spirit/mastery, I'll just leave it be and not reforge it. Avoid crit if at all possible, but if it ends up on a piece of gear just reforge it to whatever you're leaning towards! For instance, my belt I reforged to Mastery for progression!

  7. #7
    I have been working on a system to calculate stat weights for healers, based on their personal play style. More info is here:
    http://forums.askmrrobot.com/index.php?topic=1915.0

    If you keep logs of your fights, you can enter in your character information and spell usage on a typical boss fight - and it will tell you which stats will increase your total output the most and which stats will increase your healing/second the most. It's a little intimidating... but the boxes you need to enter info into are all in yellow and have comments to help you out.

    HoTs work different than DoTs, so the 12.5% Haste is somewhat meaningful. DoTs do x damage over y seconds. HoTs do x healing per tick. So, gaining an extra tick of a DoT doesn't increase your total damage, it can just save you some cast time at certain values of haste. HoTs actually get an extra tick at full healing value at certain values of haste, which increases the total throughput (or healing/mana) of the spell, assuming you get all the ticks before refreshing it.
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  8. #8
    The Patient
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    I find haste more interesting in 10 man, and mastery better for 25 man

  9. #9
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revulva View Post
    I have been working on a system to calculate stat weights for healers, based on their personal play style.
    I'm hesitant to believe that looking at my spells used will tell you anything about damage patterns and how much healing my buddies are doing with me. Mastery means nothing when it's overhealing.Also, haste does continue to scale with renew despite hitting and passing a haste plateau.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
    Tactical Disaster - Stormrage-US
    16/16 Heroic T14
    10/13 Heroic T15

  10. #10
    The spreadsheet allows you to enter in your overhealing percentages.

    Since you will be using information from one of your personal fight logs, it passively takes into account your raid team's composition and the mechanics of the particular fight you decide to use it for.

    It is a simple, but I believe effective, method for optimizing your gear. It answers two questions:
    1.) If I did the same thing on this fight again, what would be the best way to optimize my gear so that I do more total healing?
    2.) If I did the same thing on this fight again, what would be the best way to optimize my gear so that I do more healing/second?

    It is not an exact science, but it puts some real numbers to the relative value of all the stats in a particular situation.
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  11. #11
    Your spreadsheet has my thumbs up, it's a great tool. Could you update it to include t12 2-set bonus?

  12. #12
    I really like the effort here, Revulva! Thumbs up for that, this must have taken a huge amount of effort to make.
    I will try this out tomorrow using the figures from tomorrows raid, it may just help me increase my performance a little.
    And that is all I ever wanted from Ask Mr Robot. <3
    And even if it doesn't, at least it would be interesting to see what the conclusions will be.

    As per your question in the readme section...

    Haste is a very hard stat to measure perfectly. As you state, you are not casting spells all the time, so measuring HPS from haste is probably not the best way to do it. This is really part of the problem. Haste allows you to land heals faster, and in crunch time it equals pure HPS. But in general, it doesn't really increase throughput. Still, having that extra 0.1 second reaction time due to haste is often far superior to having that 2-3% extra HPS from mastery. This especially goes for those of us no longer in our teens.

    I honestly don't know how to quantify that edge haste provides. And I don't know how to compare that to the very quantifiable edge mastery offers. I just know I have tried both, and in the end I landed on haste. Mana is much tighter, but things die less. That is not a quantifiable conclusion. It's gut feelery, it's comfortability, and it's the heart speaking.

    But if you ever do find a way to compare them, I am very eager to hear that conclusion!

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