do you want a redesign for ret?

[veldrinal]

i only raid with my ret in a twink raid one night a week that clears firelands

Ok, you lost me here. What exactly does the word "twink" have to do with the most recent 85 content? A twink is a character whose level has been held back for the sake of pvp in a particular bracket.

[Derkenne]

I think id like Holy Power more if it worked less like combo points and more like runic power, but that's just me.

This actually doesn't sound that bad.

[Skarsguard]

pally has been redone every expansion now I don't think any other class has been redesigned as much as pally I could be wrong but I can't think of any. Look the system is a whole lot better then re sealing yourself every time you judge.

[Derkenne]

Ok, you lost me here. What exactly does the word "twink" have to do with the most recent 85 content? A twink is a character whose level has been held back for the sake of pvp in a particular bracket.

According to the Urban dictionary.....
An attractive, boyish-looking, young gay man. The stereotypical twink is 18-22, slender with little or no body hair, often blonde, dresses in club wear even at 10:00 AM, and is not particularly intelligent.

[xotrem]

I like my ret pally, but he is just an alt and I don't raid with him, so I really have no basis for raids to judge him by, but we have a ret pally that sometimes comes with us and his DPS seems pretty solid, so I don't know.

[Talen]

The only thing retribution needs is just one new dmg dealing ability. Be it something that blows up the 5 stacks of seal of truth on target, or a melee hit which lowers target armor and generates one HP, or just seal of truth stacking up to 20.

Not quite.

Damage wise, the rotation would flow a lot smoother with one dedicated no-CD filler. It doesn't need another CD based ability or attack.

What it needs is for the off healing role to be dropped entirely or additional balance mechanism put into place.
It needs HP to be better integrated with faster integration and a dedicated melee resource.
It needs an expanded toolkit that offers choice, promotes skills and offers enhanced PvP utility - ties in with above.

EJL

[Ulmita]

What it needs is for the off healing role to be dropped entirely or additional balance mechanism put into place.
It needs HP to be better integrated with faster integration and a dedicated melee resource.
It needs an expanded toolkit that offers choice, promotes skills and offers enhanced PvP utility - ties in with above.

EJL

Amen to that

[Reith]

do you stare at your buffs and try to find inq in there ?

I don't stare at my buffs; I quickly glance at them. Using my eyes, I find Inquisition extremely fast.

I also know that not everyone can do this, so I can understand that they might need an addon to help. Blizzard could deal with it better, I agree.

[Kaneth]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. I personally can't stand my ret paladin anymore. I just feel like I am waiting on procs far too much, and I thought blizzard was wanting to move away from that type of playstyle. I'd love to see the return of seal of blood/martyr, reduce the self healing and give ret another skill to hit while waiting for CDs.

I'd even be ok with something like taking divine storm off shared cooldown, but remove the aoe unless we're using a specific seal, which would act as a dps loss for single target.

[cidic]

I like some of what I see here. Yet at the same time I honestly have no problem playing Ret atm with my guild and they pretty much love me. So don't have many complaints (raid wise) solo wise yeah I'd like LK ret back for sure.

[Neldarie]

Re-design ret? Simple answer: No. Rets do need a major fix but hardly a re-design. The way how ret is being played in cata > any previous bullshit expansion by a long mile (assuming you aren't an idiot who is facerolling clcret); alot more fun alot more flow + following procs. Scaling with gear and what ret brings to a 25man raid in terms of buffs and utility is whats lacking. Make CS immune to parry (really frustrating on Ragnaros).

I've killed Rag:H 25 on mine, and those are the things I noticed.

[Talen]

The last page or so of ideas that have been posted really do nothing to fix the problems (ie extreme dependence on RNG for fillers, too much power inside CD's crappy outside them, horrible gap closing mechanics etc...) They just cover them up with fancy crap we have had before.

Dependence on RNG for fillers is solvable by various methods - Speed up HP generation; add a filler move; shorten or remove the CD on CS.
Reducing the effect of CDs involves removing one - say Zealotry - and redistributing damage.
Gap closing has been dsicussed to death - my take is to simply make the existing mechanics more viable, add one or two moves for a sustained approach and/or use a CD approach where you get one true gap closer every few minutes.

There are plenty of ideas out there. But Blizzard developed a bursty class with poor-fair sustained DPS, strongish off healing potential and low mobility

Re-design ret? Simple answer: No. Rets do need a major fix but hardly a re-design. The way how ret is being played in cata > any previous bullshit expansion by a long mile (assuming you aren't an idiot who is facerolling clcret); alot more fun alot more flow + following procs. Scaling with gear and what ret brings to a 25man raid in terms of buffs and utility is whats lacking. Make CS immune to parry (really frustrating on Ragnaros).

I'd actually be against that. Its a quick, easy fix but it only solve some issues.

Besides...the thing with CS missing is that it makes sense. Whats wrong is that the rotation is so poor that missing is a big deal when it comes to HP generation.

Rets don't need yet another redesign...the problem is the revamp before Catcalysm just...ground to a halt months before Cataclysm launched. When HP came out for example, there was all this talk about what Blizzrad were planning for it....and what changed during Beta was essentially the placement of some talents. And even then, HP was deemphasised in live when spells were revamped to not actually use it. Its as if they just lost interest.

HP had...indeed, still has...lots of potential as a resource. It needs developing, it needs more tools, it needs faster HP generation.

And thats just part of the issue.

EJL

[Deleted]

HP has to develope as our Blessings have developed.
From 5 Minute buffs to usefull tools.
Redesigned classes just need some love to actually work well

[Neldarie]

@ Talen : I wasn't talking of it as a fix, and parry is not the same as miss. Go do rag 10man with meleeing him in the face and properly behind in 25man after. Once ya done that and seen 10k+ dps difference you will understand what I'm talking about. Ret even w-o parried CS (no HP) has chunks of time spent idling with nothing to press and this just adds more salt in the fray. Note how I said CS being removed from the parry list and not anything else.

[Talen]

HP has to develope as our Blessings have developed.
From 5 Minute buffs to usefull tools.
Redesigned classes just need some love to actually work well

That should actually be easy.

Ret is DPS. The HP system is very similar to the Rogue/Feral CP system. What Ret lacks is a dedicated melee resource that fills the Energy analogue....something that allows for more interesting mechanics, limits burst capability and can tie into haste withoutt he need for SoB. That could be mana, or it could be a new resource entirely. After that, CS needs its CD reduced or eliminated, and a wider selection of openers and finishers.

Holy works well as is, but a wider tool selection wouldn't hurt.

Prot would be tricky. **IF** we take into account Blizzard desire to make Hit, Expe and so on of actual value to tanks then we can look into using HP to empower an active defence rotation. This would be akin to a Warlocks DoT management except using HP empowered Strikes to provide self buffs - I'm thinking along the lines of Ghost Strike where the attacker recieved a dodge bonus. Having to roll several such tools together (for mitigation, shielding and self healing) and maintain them in a manner akin to a Warlock maintaining his DoTs would potentially create a very different tanking style. Of course, for this to work, you are probably looking at giving up the shield and block mechanic, meaning a reversion to 2H tanking and moves which rely on Weapon damage.

That would only leaves Shockadin but if desired, it would be possible to fit in HP moves for that role as well. It would even break the Exo spam the system has now.

EJL

[Jonuts]

Note how I said CS being removed from the parry list and not anything else.

Simple solution. Add into sanctity of battle an expertise bonus to CS only, so 26 expertise where to hardcap your expertise for CS only. Frankly, it's pretty stupid that our Holy Power generation gets penalized so heavily by fight mechanics, but it's so central to our ability to do anything but shove a thumb up my ass, and maybe wiggle it on occasion.

Gap closing has been dsicussed to death

Because it's basically our biggest weakness. I said it once, I'll say it again. There's something wrong when being deathgripped by a DK is my most effective gap closer.

[Kelesti]

It's not that they are boring, the problem is that it can be super slow at times, or extremely hectic and insanely fast paced at others. The times when u have nothing to hit on GCD cuz of fillers being on CD is the main problem. Blizzard needs to give rets an ability that has no CD, but shouldn't be spammed...warriors have shit like that.

Show me what a Fury Warrior can hit. Show me.

[Crimson Rider]

Show me what a Fury Warrior can hit. Show me.

so because fury has some theoretical problems in its dps department, Ret paladins should be denied attention and the right to express their concerns?
oisee.

[Jonuts]

so because fury has some theoretical problems in its dps department, Ret paladins should be denied attention and the right to express their concerns?
oisee.

Actually, I'm pretty certain that was a response to

Blizzard needs to give rets an ability that has no CD, but shouldn't be spammed...warriors have shit like that.

Which, by the way, the guy quoted, so I shouldn't have to point this out for you. Now, I'm not an expert on warriors (Seriously, 99.9% of my playtime is Paladin..) but my understanding of fury warriors is they don't have a spam ability either. Closest thing they got to that is Heroic Strike, which has a cooldown, and only gets used if you're about to cap your rage anyways.

It's not a statement of "Warriors need attention more than Paladins", it was a way of saying "No, don't have what you said they have".

[Kelesti]

Pretty much what Jonuts said.

It's not that "Warriors are broken and needing to fix everything" it's that as a Fury Warrior, especially Titan's Grip, there are literally times where you're sitting there for 3 1/2 seconds just waiting for a cooldown to come back so you can hit it again, and can't risk a Heroic Strike rage-gibbing you. So yes, they have nothing, they have deadtime.

Enhancement has dead-time too, though not to the extent of either of these plate wielders, but it is there where there's a global that you can't really do much of anything. That's the price you pay for playing Melee.