Are ret pallies based on luck?

[Matrlx]

^______ this is True

[TitanTyr]

Paladin dps in a nutshell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjjPc...eature=related

[Deleted]

Good bit of RNG but not as bad as some specs like Fire Mage,

My damage is actually fairly consistent on raid bosses, maybe 1.5k deviations on attempts?

[Khwaj]

relies more on luck
did some 3s a few days ago, game went on for abt 10 minutes cos due to both sides keeping each other up, we eventually lost it cos the enemy shaman had 10% mana left while our healer was oom, was a really close match though

next match we vs them again, thought it was gonna be the same decently long match, we won in <2minutes, i had 6 DP procs in a row

[anti-wow]

Then i would say elemental shamans are based on Lava Surge proc and mastery proc, same thing.

[zcks]

Overall ret is right up there with fire mages & enhancement shaman when it comes to dependence on luck.
This ^ is made worse by the fact that if the stars don't align to give you RNG procs you simply have noting to do between Cd's.

There is also a problem with Ret being extremely dependent on CD's (which almost half the classes can dispel at base).


This all combines to create a very bursty spec that can become incredibly boring if the stars don't align or be easily countered by offensive/defensive dispels.

---------- Post added 2011-08-06 at 09:06 AM ----------

Find it kind of funny yet sad at the same time, blizzard management blue posts said they wanted ret to focus more on offensive & less on being an off healer this expansion.

They also said things like they wanted the spec to be more dependent on skill & less on luck because they did not like the fact t10 made luck a large factor in dps.

Then they went and rushed the design team & we end up with this POS.

[Marc123]

Paladin DPS is skill. Some fights I do 20k, or 25k or 30k. Fifteen seconds into an encounter I'm doing 35k to 45k. Regardless, you have no excuse not to be #1 for any reason other than skill.

Oh give us a break. Making a generalization based upon your personal and trivial experience is just absurd. That's like saying, if I am lucky at the crap table, then there is no excuse you to be lucky too. Go take your crap elsewhere.

[Floross]

What he was saying was obviously a joke ...

[Darkfriend]

Paladin DPS is skill. Some fights I do 20k, or 25k or 30k. Fifteen seconds into an encounter I'm doing 35k to 45k. Regardless, you have no excuse not to be #1 for any reason other than skill.

Right. My fury warrior, even less geared slightly, would blow up a ret pally on the DPS any day.

[terrahero]

You people dont seem to understand the pure brilliance of the Ret spec. They made it so incredibly random that they transport the player of this holy warrior into a state where you are actually going "ow god, please please please PLEASE just proc just freaking proc! I swear ill go to church this sunday!"

[gildra]

Paladin dps in a nutshell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjjPc...eature=related

I actually have my Power auras configured to play that song when I pop wings.

[ipoststuff]

Ofc rng affects our dps maybe a little bit more than other classes but in a 5-6min long fight it'll even itself out. On a raid night that lasted 2+ hours rng wont have an considerable effect on your dps. And also

Meters, top guilds, arena lists and overall number of retribution paladins in endgame raiding and pvp donesn't lie, i won't go and say we're broken but out of every class that can dps we're rock bottom.

qft

[Vuagnon]

Overall ret is right up there with fire mages & enhancement shaman when it comes to dependence on luck.
This ^ is made worse by the fact that if the stars don't align to give you RNG procs you simply have noting to do between Cd's.

There is also a problem with Ret being extremely dependent on CD's (which almost half the classes can dispel at base).


This all combines to create a very bursty spec that can become incredibly boring if the stars don't align or be easily countered by offensive/defensive dispels.

---------- Post added 2011-08-06 at 09:06 AM ----------

Find it kind of funny yet sad at the same time, blizzard management blue posts said they wanted ret to focus more on offensive & less on being an off healer this expansion.

They also said things like they wanted the spec to be more dependent on skill & less on luck because they did not like the fact t10 made luck a large factor in dps.

Then they went and rushed the design team & we end up with this POS.

They wanted to make Ret focus on offense more but have left the spec at the mercy of cooldowns and RNG, outside of which by no means any sort of offensive viability exists but an inevitable off healing torture furthermore weakens both its own survivability and offense at the same time.

If the main goal was to make Ret a mediocre off healer with low survivability that goes truly offensive once every 2 minutes, then we may say it's accomplished by now. That however doesn't fit the decription of a righteous crusader punishing its enemies by holy magic in my opinion but sounds more like a ripped off damage dealer.

[Deleted]

Sadly they are based on luck, yes.

I think it'd help if they at least made that 3HP proc scale with something... Like amount of STR or even crit chance or haste could increase it because haste is kinda useless stat for rPaladins.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Ofc rng affects our dps maybe a little bit more than other classes but in a 5-6min long fight it'll even itself out. On a raid night that lasted 2+ hours rng wont have an considerable effect on your dps. And also

qft

Not trolling, out of every class that has a dps tree paladin have the worst spec.
Warrior has fury.
Warlocks have Demo and Affli.
Shamans have Enh (who actually beats retribution)
Mages have fire and arcane.
Rogues have combat and assa.
Hunters have MM.
Priests have Shadow.
Druids have Balance and Feral.
DK has Frost.

Paladins have Retribution, on the overall meters the only 2 specs that retribution beats on damage is Unholy DKs and Destruction Warlocks. Both of those classes have a spec that beats retribution again, retribution paladins simply cant change spec and continue as normal. Priests are in the same boat with only having one dps spec but their dps spec is at the top of the meters, last time i checked there's ONE retribution paladin in the raid rooster of the top 5 guilds in the world. Nevermind actually being in the progression raids. Paragon doesn't even have a retribution paladin in their raid rooster, the one they had was "forced" to reroll arcane mage or lose his dps spot in the raids. If a destruction warlock for instance was met with the same problem they'd reroll, that however isn't a problem, it's part of being a true hybrid. However what's sad is that the raiding retribution paladins in the top guilds are forced to reroll or not raid, that's not fair at all. No matter how much you're min/maxing a spec should never get to the point where they're underperforming so bad that they're forced to reroll or gtfo.

[Eon Drache]

But but, Vodka used a retridin on heroic Ragnaros right?

I am not trying to counter your argument, if we take the best dps-spec of every class, than paladins are the lowest.
If you ask me, it's time for some constructive posting again. That's what changed our Divine Purpose and Mastery, exactely as people wanted.

Maybe it would be even enough if they buffed the AW-cooldown and let TV lower the cooldown each time we use it.

You do know that the "New" live retribution mastery is just a nerfed version of the first beta mastery for retribution, right? They didn't change anything.

Anyway, we have been posting really good feedback on the official forums. There have been some great ideas and posts. Blizzard stopped reading the Paladin forums back in Vanilla. And without a suggestion forum.. Good luck with that. Blizzard has stated that they feel Retribution is balanced. They simply don't understand their own creation.

[Deleted]

u made 30kdps in 10 man raid buff i already posted about testing the AoK trinket on dungron 5 man raid buff Ending the fight with 28k and the Druid was shitting me coz i did that , so yea its based it on luck and as Requital said
http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/ner&#39;...aleroc-25H-503

the problem with that raidbot is that people look at the top 100 and some people look 'all parses' which incudes a lot of baddies.

baddies bring ret down we go from being mid-table in top 100 to being 3rd last in all parses.

ret' not bad dps we just have a larger than everage 'baddie' proportion in the people who get put onto wow logs.

[NaaBcAke]

ret' not bad dps we just have a larger than everage 'baddie' proportion in the people who get put onto wow logs.

Or, id add, it is easier to be "baddie" while playing ret, then while playing for example hunter/dk/mage, aka more room to fuck up things which will lower your performance..which aditionaly leads to those tables being like that.

[Malthanis]

Also: They didn't stop reading the paladin forum..

True enough. If they had stopped, Rebuke would still be a Ret talent, and Word of Glory would have never proc'd the old version of Holy Shield. You may not agree with the direction, but Ret is indeed getting better, along with the Paladin class as a whole.

The only real problem I see is the difference between the top and bottom of our DPS. It seems that we top out at higher levels and bottom out at lower levels when compared to other DPS. Given a long enough data sample, there would probably be a rather even DPS distribution across the board. However, the graph that everybody's been linking is limited by boss mechanics and fight lengths.

Having another ability to use as a filler between Crusader Strikes would help raise our baseline a bit, and then our top-end could be reduced to compensate. Overall, that should show an increase in average DPS to more relevant levels.

[Floross]

True enough. If they had stopped, Rebuke would still be a Ret talent, and Word of Glory would have never proc'd the old version of Holy Shield. You may not agree with the direction, but Ret is indeed getting better, along with the Paladin class as a whole.

The only real problem I see is the difference between the top and bottom of our DPS. It seems that we top out at higher levels and bottom out at lower levels when compared to other DPS. Given a long enough data sample, there would probably be a rather even DPS distribution across the board. However, the graph that everybody's been linking is limited by boss mechanics and fight lengths.

Having another ability to use as a filler between Crusader Strikes would help raise our baseline a bit, and then our top-end could be reduced to compensate. Overall, that should show an increase in average DPS to more relevant levels.

Funny you say that , I was doing some sims on me and guildies for patchwerk ( baleroc ) and god damn my avg is 26k and max is 49k!!!! While for an example an enhance's avg is 30k and max is 33k.